General Plot discussion...

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Ithuar
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Re: General Plot discussion...

Postby Ithuar » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:57 am

I'm near the end of the game now. Playing through the game I've thought the plot to be overly complicated. They don't tell you what the Chronicles and Fusions (of worlds) are until very late into the game.
I don't care too much for the sentimentality in the game; the video after the final events at Ladzaa, for instance, that was way over the top for me. I guess that's all typically Japanese, though, 'cause I've seen things like that in anime.

I like how there are different worlds and how in many of them the Starbearers engaged the One King in a battle that ended tragically. The clips you see when you find a Chronicle are interesting. But from what I read the One King's motives aren't going to be explained, so that'll probably be a disappointment.

SPOILER

After you fight the One King for the first time, and you find yourself back at the HQ, you're given the option to use the strategy against the One King that requires the Starbearers to sacrifice themselves. If you choose that option, there's a scene, taking place in the One King's tower in Cynas, where you see the Hero becoming the One King after having lost the battle, and it's game over. Did I get that right? If I did, it tells me something about the One King's origins. Did anyone else ever select that option?

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Re: General Plot discussion...

Postby Antimatzist » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:28 am

Ithuar wrote:After you fight the One King for the first time, and you find yourself back at the HQ, you're given the option to use the strategy against the One King that requires the Starbearers to sacrifice themselves. If you choose that option, there's a scene, taking place in the One King's tower in Cynas, where you see the Hero becoming the One King after having lost the battle, and it's game over. Did I get that right? If I did, it tells me something about the One King's origins. Did anyone else ever select that option?

Yeah you're right. that's about the scene. But what does it tell? It is already known that the One King is a former Tenkai.


Well I'm playing the game again (for walkthrough purposes) and I think it's really dumb how you recruit some characters. Sphiel, e.g.: She doesn't even know you or your army or the enemy, still she joins you and is magically a Starbearer and can use Mark of the Stars. This is so completely random, they should have made it different. You should not be chosen by a book to become a Member, but by the leader, right? Also the hero is stupid sometimes. When you recruit Maybelle, she says something like "Oh Starbearer? So the stars must have chosen us to become together" and he responds "Well, if you think so you're not better than the order. bye." I mean why did they have to change the whole Stars of Destiny thing into a Stars of the Book-Chosen? they even tell you in the game that you could change your star. This is stupid....

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Ithuar
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Re: General Plot discussion...

Postby Ithuar » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:02 pm

I might have enjoyed the game less if I took it more seriously.

Someone said the One King doesn't have a motive, but he does. The One King says the Infinity consists of confusion and chaos, and by making it one world he puts an end to that, making it "the absolute model of perfection and order."

As for his origins, the game wants you to figure that out for yourself.

'I have bound together the lives of the Stars. As with an Infinity of unlimited possibilities, the existence of numerous Stars, lighting the paths of all worlds, symbolizes an undetermined future. And I have combined them into one."

"The One King has neither past nor future, only conflict. A war against myself, a sacrifice of myself. Yet, at long last, you, with the Stars of other worlds, have ended this monstrous cycle."

The game isn't as bad as some Suikoden fans would have me believe. I think you can dislike a game too much.

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Re: General Plot discussion...

Postby LanceHeart » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:29 pm

That's kind of why many people don't care for the plot of the game. The One King is basically the same as one of the three major "big baddies" most JRPGs, manga and anime have: Pure evil that wants to destroy everything (90% of all Final Fantasy games), a "neutral/natural force" that obliterates all in its path (this is what the One King is), or an egomaniac that wants to rule everything.

That and many other clichés were never really applied in a way that made them flat-out caricatures like Tierkreis did. As I've said quite a few times in the past: the game is above average among new DS JRPGs (don't count remade/ported "classics" like FF3/4, DQ5, etc.), but below average for Suikoden.
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Re: General Plot discussion...

Postby KC_MCDOHL » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:10 pm

I don't believe that TOK is a pure evil, 'wants to destroy everything' cliche at all. If you go by the quotes that Ithuar has given, amongst other quotes. its very clear that his motives aren't as simple as obliterating everything for the sake of evil, egomania, or even for pure Order. And if you keep that in mind when questioning where he actualy originates from - I think he becomes a very interesting enigma indeed. I think there is more to TOK than we already know. Or the ending was badly translated or written.

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Re: General Plot discussion...

Postby LanceHeart » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:52 pm

Having gone through the end of Tierkreis once again, I noticed that The One King is exactly a "neutral" force that destroys everything in its path. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of the Tenkai Star making the wrong choices to defend his/her world. You break the chain by defeating him in your own world, with him being defeated in multiple other worlds. There's no proof TOK was completely stopped, though.
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Re: General Plot discussion...

Postby KC_MCDOHL » Sun May 29, 2011 9:22 pm

Oh, I agree that TOK is, on the surface, a ''neutral'' force, a self-fullfilling prophecy that will continue to destory everything in its path. But for what purpose? I don't think its to achieve pure Order.

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Re: General Plot discussion...

Postby gilgamesh31 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:01 pm

LanceHeart wrote:You break the chain by defeating him in your own world, with him being defeated in multiple other worlds. There's no proof TOK was completely stopped, though.


God i hope he was stopped! The least Konami can do if they are going to countinue doing Tierkreis titles is not make some lame ass bad guy that returns every game, that would be so boring. I dont see how else they could countinue the game otherwise, it seemed like the end of a series not a start of one, i mean how many times can you keep on saving the world?
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