Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Suikoden Tierkreis pre-release board.
LanceHeart
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Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Postby LanceHeart » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:40 pm

Braxiatel wrote:I have removed all references to the Suikoden name, because this is *not* a Suikoden game.

I'm sorry, but could you be MORE of a poor sport?
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Braxiatel
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Re: Official Suikoden Tierkreis news

Postby Braxiatel » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:52 pm

?

I'm simply stating the facts as they are.

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Re: Official Suikoden Tierkreis news

Postby SnowKing » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:13 am

Except that it's not a fact. You may not like the game, and it may be a bit different to what we're used to, but the fact is (and you may like to look up the word fact, btw) is that it *is* a Suikoden game. You know how Konami made it, used some of the regular Suikoden formula and called the game Suikoden Tierkreis? Yeah, that's a generally good indicator that the game is a Suikoden game. Funny that.
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Re: Official Suikoden Tierkreis news

Postby Braxiatel » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:50 pm

SnowKing wrote:You know how Konami made it, used some of the regular Suikoden formula and called the game Suikoden Tierkreis? Yeah, that's a generally good indicator that the game is a Suikoden game. Funny that.


* Weapons bought instead of upgraded.
* No True Runes
* No one-on-one duels
* No strategic battles
* No re-occurring characters confirmed
* Set in parallel world. ???

And the above are pretty bloody good indicators that it is not.

Simply slapping the name on a generic RPG made for 12 year olds does not make it a Suikoden game.

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Re: Official Suikoden Tierkreis news

Postby Antimatzist » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:40 pm

Braxiatel wrote:
SnowKing wrote:You know how Konami made it, used some of the regular Suikoden formula and called the game Suikoden Tierkreis? Yeah, that's a generally good indicator that the game is a Suikoden game. Funny that.


* Weapons bought instead of upgraded.
* No True Runes
* No one-on-one duels
* No strategic battles
* No re-occurring characters confirmed
* Set in parallel world. ???

And the above are pretty bloody good indicators that it is not.

Simply slapping the name on a generic RPG made for 12 year olds does not make it a Suikoden game.

Just two words: 108 Stars of Destiny (Oh, more than 2 words^^)

Just look at it as a new take on the series.

Tactics didn't have duels or war battles, suikogaiden neither. Suikoden IV had a total of 3 recurring characters! (4 if you want to include Reinbach) So is it just partly a Suikoden game?

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Re: Official Suikoden Tierkreis news

Postby Braxiatel » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:52 pm

Antimatzist wrote:Just two words: 108 Stars of Destiny (Oh, more than 2 words^^)

Just look at it as a new take on the series.


Yes, a new take that is a complete cash-in. And simply throwing in a whole bunch of characters does not automatically make it a Suikoden game.

Antimatzist wrote:Tactics didn't have duels or war battles, suikogaiden neither. Suikoden IV had a total of 3 recurring characters! (4 if you want to include Reinbach) So is it just partly a Suikoden game?


Tactics was a direct continuation (story wise) of Suikoden IV.

Suikoden IV also had

Upgraded weapons, True Runes, One on One duels, strategic battles and *wasn't* set in a parallel world.

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Re: Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Postby SnowKing » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:01 pm

Yet Suikoden Tierkreis, despite only having a couple of our more 'conventional' Suikoden aspects, is still Suikoden. It could be a 'generic RPG designed by 12 year olds' as you've said about 100 times on this board but they've used the 108 stars basis and stuck Suikoden in the title, so whether you like it or not, that does technically make it a Suikoden game.

If you don't think it's Suikoden, then why are you still hanging around in this forum? That'd be like someone not liking a random game and going into a forum to repeatedly make the same poor argument. There's no point. Just leave the forum and pretend Tierkreis doesn't exist.

And as for it not tying into the story, you haven't played it yet, nobody has, it could have some references to past games, or perhaps even future games, we don't know yet so how can we judge? It supposedly takes place in the Million Worlds, something that's been referenced multiple times in the series, there's your first tie in. There's no point complaining, we'll just have to wait and see when the game comes out.
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Re: Official Suikoden Tierkreis news

Postby Antimatzist » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:23 pm

Braxiatel wrote:
Antimatzist wrote:Just two words: 108 Stars of Destiny (Oh, more than 2 words^^)

Just look at it as a new take on the series.


Yes, a new take that is a complete cash-in. And simply throwing in a whole bunch of characters does not automatically make it a Suikoden game.

You're right... 108 Characters and a HQ at some place with water makes it a Suikoden. And on some screenshots, you see that the castle's at some lake/sea. So it's a Suikoden!


Now really, Final fantasy's changing with every title, the only thing all Final Fantasy's have in common is... well.. I don't know. But you sound like those people who didn't like Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter, just because there is only one playable dragon.

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Re: Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Postby Braxiatel » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:59 pm

SnowKing wrote:Yet Suikoden Tierkreis, despite only having a couple of our more 'conventional' Suikoden aspects, is still Suikoden. It could be a 'generic RPG designed by 12 year olds' as you've said about 100 times on this board but they've used the 108 stars basis and stuck Suikoden in the title, so whether you like it or not, that does technically make it a Suikoden game.

If you don't think it's Suikoden, then why are you still hanging around in this forum?


Because I was hoping people were sensible enough to see that this isn't a real Suikoden game and actually wanted a proper console release.

Just slapping a name on something does not automatically make it a proper title.

Antimatzist wrote:But you sound like those people who didn't like Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter, just because there is only one playable dragon.


Another irrelevant example.

BOF is another series that's changed from game to game like Final Fantasy. You can't compare those to Suikoden because there's no consistent world building going on in those games. And I liked BOF V just fine. :P

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Re: Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Postby LanceHeart » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:15 pm

Braxiatel wrote:Because I was hoping people were sensible enough to see that this isn't a real Suikoden game and actually wanted a proper console release.

Just slapping a name on something does not automatically make it a proper title.

I'm sorry, but I keep seeing you spew this every single time. Fact is, we know nothing about the game's story, nor how it fits in the storyline of the main world, nor if we'll see heroes from past games due to the merging worlds. Heroes who basically don't end up being Stars of Destiny.

The devs even said they're trying to bring the feel of a Suikoden plot, at least one mainstay (108 SoD) and a few other things to the table, all the while making this a spinoff that might garner interest for the franchise as a whole. Yes, that means they're trying to branch out in order to bring more players to the main table.

I don't see how you can be more stubborn than a mule when it comes to this game. I've gotten over the fact that this probably isn't remotely related to what Suikoden 6 might be nor what they were trying to do with Suikoden 5's return (read: copying) of Suikoden 2. All I can hope for is that this game creates more interest in a series that I'm sure Konami wanted to give the boot.
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Re: Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Postby Braxiatel » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:13 pm

LanceHeart wrote:I don't see how you can be more stubborn than a mule when it comes to this game. I've gotten over the fact that this probably isn't remotely related to what Suikoden 6 might be nor what they were trying to do with Suikoden 5's return (read: copying) of Suikoden 2. All I can hope for is that this game creates more interest in a series that I'm sure Konami wanted to give the boot.


Developers go where the money is. If this is successful, I have no doubt they'll do endless copies of Tierkries for the DS instead of doing a proper Suikoden sequel. The fact that this is on the DS at all makes it blatantly obvious it's a cash grab by Konami.

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Re: Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Postby Lemmy Claypool » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:13 am

Bra, has it never occurred to you that Konami could slap a Suikoden logo on anything they wanted? They made the damn series, they can do what they want with it.

They could make a straight up one-on-one fighting game, a la Soul Calibur, call it Suikoden Tournament or something equally as bad, and give it a canon storyline if they want. If people don't wanna acknowledge this, they don't have to, but it's not up to them to decide.

Also, as for your earlier dismissal of Breath of Fire as a decent comparison, I'm pretty sure the first four BOFs take place within the same world. The first two definitely do anyway. So I'd consider it a pretty good comparison actually.

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Re: Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:04 am

Braxiatel wrote:
Antimatzist wrote:But you sound like those people who didn't like Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter, just because there is only one playable dragon.


Another irrelevant example.

BOF is another series that's changed from game to game like Final Fantasy. You can't compare those to Suikoden because there's no consistent world building going on in those games. And I liked BOF V just fine. :P

Well, BoF I, II and III play in the same world/history (not geographically), and maybe IV too.

And if you liked BoF V- which is absolutely different than the previous titles! (Completely different Gameplay, Setting (a dark technoworld or something like that), only 3 characters.. Actually, the only things that make it a BoF-Title are Nina, Ryu and a Dragon)- why don't you give Tierkreis a chance?

If this is successful, I have no doubt they'll do endless copies of Tierkries for the DS instead of doing a proper Suikoden sequel.

And if it won't succeed I'll bet my life that Konami will never do anything Suikoden-related again.

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Re: Removing references to "Suikoden" [split from news]

Postby KFCrispy » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:59 am

it doesn't matter what this game has and doesn't have, the owners of the Suikoden franchise (KONAMI) have decided to make this game as an addition to the series, therefore it is a Suikoden game. Rhapsodia is also a Suikoden game even if it's lacking on true runes, no 108 stars, etc, etc.

your whining about Konami ruining the series is not going to stop this Suikoden game from coming out.


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