konami still has hopes in suikoden

Suikoden Tierkreis pre-release board.
Braxiatel
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Braxiatel » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:13 pm

Mio wrote: and what personal attacks? you must have me mixed up with somebody else

have i said offending words addressed to you?


Mio wrote: negating a wrong idea without even giving it a chance to completely prove itself is rather...

unreasonable... and control freak-ish

seriously, it's Konami's risk to take, not yours

if you think they're making a mistake... then let them

you don't have to go as far as disowning* a soon to be conceived game just to prove your point

that's not just unreasonable and control freak-ish but exaggerating as well


You've said this in about 3 or 4 different posts now, WE GET IT.

And yes, it is a personal attack, when you say it repeatedly addressed to me.

I can make my points without insulting people on the board - why can't anyone else?

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Mio
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Mio » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:35 pm

ahh those

were those personal attacks to you?

i was merely crticizing your complaints

the same way you criticize Konami's decision

true they were negative comments but so were yours right?

now if my saying that your discontent about Tierkreis is unreasonable, exaggerating, and makes you a bit of a control freak

and in effect making you an unreasonable exaggerated control freak

well then I apologize from the bottomless pit of my heart

although I expected more of you since you casually deface Tierkreis and yet couldn't handle such criticism

*sigh* hypocrisy is such a cruel attribute...

Emperorpen
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Emperorpen » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:45 pm

Rezard wrote:
Emperorpen wrote: Think about it like this....is there really much left for the Suikoden world to investigate? If they stick strictly to the world they are in, there is pretty much only one game left; the final one.


You are wrong, there is much to investigate in the Suikoden world. Its world is just gingantic, but if they rush and take only what matters most, there should be at least two games to cover the already stablished mysteries and that's if they rush. I wish SIV was on nameless lands and SV on Harmonia, than Konami could pull all unrelated game they want and I wouldnt care.

If Konami really had hopes for Suikoden, they would have already anounced (or at least hinted) a Suikoden VI game on the Suikoden world. This game is nothing but a test to see how Suikoden fairs, to see if it can bring new fans, while keeping the old. Konami doubts Suikoden.


What is left to explore? Unless they start making up new countries, there really isnt enough for too many games. At least not any with real substance. 5 games is already an INCREDIBLY long run for one series. I would think that they would want to wrap it up at 6. Wasnt that the original intent of the creators anyways?

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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Antimatzist » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:59 pm

Emperorpen wrote:
Rezard wrote:
Emperorpen wrote: Think about it like this....is there really much left for the Suikoden world to investigate? If they stick strictly to the world they are in, there is pretty much only one game left; the final one.


You are wrong, there is much to investigate in the Suikoden world. Its world is just gingantic, but if they rush and take only what matters most, there should be at least two games to cover the already stablished mysteries and that's if they rush. I wish SIV was on nameless lands and SV on Harmonia, than Konami could pull all unrelated game they want and I wouldnt care.

If Konami really had hopes for Suikoden, they would have already anounced (or at least hinted) a Suikoden VI game on the Suikoden world. This game is nothing but a test to see how Suikoden fairs, to see if it can bring new fans, while keeping the old. Konami doubts Suikoden.


What is left to explore? Unless they start making up new countries, there really isnt enough for too many games. At least not any with real substance. 5 games is already an INCREDIBLY long run for one series. I would think that they would want to wrap it up at 6. Wasnt that the original intent of the creators anyways?

Yeah, but I guess they changed their idea of what will happen to the series.


And there are at least 2 more continents to explore, so there should be plenty of material for more "old" games..

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Mio
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Mio » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:15 pm

i would like to anticipate a "revisit" as well

kinda like going back to a previous country like Toran or Dunan...

and marvelling at either its history or progress (depends on its position in timeline)

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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Antimatzist » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:37 pm

Mio wrote:i would like to anticipate a "revisit" as well

kinda like going back to a previous country like Toran or Dunan...

and marvelling at either its history or progress (depends on its position in timeline)

That would be nice too. Like revisiting Greminster, but, well... just more.

I definitely want to see Budehuc again, I men it must look great now that they have the time to repair it^^

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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Emperorpen » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:36 pm

I would too, but lets be realistic. Konami woudlnt do such a fan service game like that. At least not mainstream. I imagine that the other continents will be mostly, if not completely, fleshed out when the next true Suikoden comes out anyways. Im telling you, the story has dragged on. It really is time to wrap up Harmonia.

Aculias
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Aculias » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:13 am

I think it will be an interesting game.
All the Suikodens have never really let us down.
All in all in this whole big Suiko world, there will always be a story that evolves around the series.
The only person i heard complain about it was brax & i think thats pretty good.

The boy needs to learn the difference between a personal attack & reasonable debate.
There is a big difference.
Sucks i missed out saying my piece before the thread was locked :P

So far the game looks good from what i seen.
I will buy it as soon as it comes out.

So no worries everyone.
Not like Kyril had any special powers.
It's not the end of the Suiko world.

LanceHeart
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby LanceHeart » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:04 am

The interesting thing about Suikoden is that for the first three (primarily), you really don't need to play the previous games to get what's going on in the current one. The tying of the storyline was done in such a way that you didn't really need to have played the previous games in order to figure out that there were previous wars. Even the first game had this sort of self-referential storytelling with constant mentions of the Succession War and the Gate Rune's legacy.

Removing that history completely, to me, means they just didn't want to/couldn't put resources into researching their established universe before writing the plot and script of this game. While I can understand the business side of it, the latest 1Up interview really feels like they're tired of working with the same world and don't want to use it anymore.

At this point, I don't see any problems with them making a "Tierkreis" series, much like tons of other franchises have done in the past: Branch out to create franchise diversity. Mega Man did it when they segregated the main storyline from the Battle Network/Star Force worlds; Final Fantasy did it when they created the Ivalice Alliance; even Unreal did it when they created Unreal Tournament.

Anyway, with day one sales of 40 thousand units, one can only hope sales stay up for a prolonged period. Considering how many DS systems there are and how well Tales of Hearts (and even Dissidia) did in comparison, Suikoden is the #3 franchise on the RPG sales list of this week. With a bit of luck, they might beat the last established figures of Suikoden V.
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Braxiatel
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Braxiatel » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:22 pm

LanceHeart wrote:The interesting thing about Suikoden is that for the first three (primarily), you really don't need to play the previous games to get what's going on in the current one.


Except when the villain is revealed in Suikoden 3. If you haven't played the other two, you have no idea what he is.

I'd argue that Suikoden 3 is the one where hinges on the previous games the most.

Aculias
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Aculias » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:29 pm

I disagree Brax.
You learn very little about Luc.
He would. We knew he had A wind rune, not the true wind rune.
We knew he was an aprentice od Leknaat, we did not know how close he was to Leknaat yet.

Part 2 we knew he help route Harmonia's army but we dont really know how or why Harmonia retreated at that time.

Many would not care to look at Luc's background if it was not for S3.

It helps a little but you did not need to play through the other games to know him.

As far as i know he grew up.
Part one & 2 he was an arogant butthole who was very sarcastic & cocky. Very confident.
Something happened that changed him.
He grew up but made some poor bad decisions but i understand why.

His whole feelings changed when he heard Sasarai commanded the Harmonian army in S2.

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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby LanceHeart » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:18 pm

Braxiatel wrote:
LanceHeart wrote:The interesting thing about Suikoden is that for the first three (primarily), you really don't need to play the previous games to get what's going on in the current one.


Except when the villain is revealed in Suikoden 3. If you haven't played the other two, you have no idea what he is.

I'd argue that Suikoden 3 is the one where hinges on the previous games the most.

But they actually quickly cover the events of the previous wars and as Aculias said, Luc's (and consequently Sasarai's) revelation was more of a shock to old fans and a standard affair for new ones. While Suikoden 3 had the closest ties to its predecessors, it also held up as a great "first Suikoden game I played" title. Many people who missed the first two actually got in with Suikoden 3.

Come to think of it, all of the games can be standalone. There is no main-series Suikoden game that can't hold up on its own. Suikogaiden, Card Stories and Tactics were spinoffs created to expand on a specific title, though.

In the end, we can only hope Konami wants to create a concurrent series rather than abandon the original one and continue on with this new one.
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Braxiatel
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Braxiatel » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:40 pm

LanceHeart wrote:
Come to think of it, all of the games can be standalone. There is no main-series Suikoden game that can't hold up on its own.


No, but the payoff and enjoyment is better when you've played all of them.

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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby LanceHeart » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:13 pm

Of course it is. That's the point of having a continuous storyline: It's great for established fans and something to discover for new ones. Not having played previous games shouldn't and doesn't take away from the core game, though.
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Braxiatel
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Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Braxiatel » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:33 pm

And it shouldn't be exclusive of long time fans to the game - like this game is doing.


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