konami still has hopes in suikoden

Suikoden Tierkreis pre-release board.
Emperorpen
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:58 am

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Emperorpen » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:12 am

I think many of you are forgeting here the real reasons we loved Suikoden, the story, the characters and the quality of presentation. Did you complain about the original Suikoden because it didnt bring characters in from the previous games? Of course not...there werent any previous games. Did not still love Suikoden? I would hope so.

Watch the trailers for this game and imagine it was the first Suikoden to come out. It looks absolutely great so far.

LanceHeart
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby LanceHeart » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:10 am

That's not exactly a great argument. Suikoden being the first game in the entire franchise basically made it a new game. Suikoden Tiekreis is pretty much the 10th game in the franchise, making 10 games worth of stories they could have latched Tierkreis onto. I'll agree that the loss of True Runes isn't exactly THAT bad, but I'm fearing how simplistic the story might turn out to be without that plot point, especially if this game has absolutely no link to the rest of the franchise at all.
Formerly known as: Gothann

Emperorpen
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:58 am

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Emperorpen » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:50 pm

The point is that a game's greatness isnt determined by what it follows. Dont get me wrong, I am disapointed that it is changing some things, but what makes Suikoden great is the individual stories and characters and attention to presentation. If you watch the trailers you get the same sense from Suikoden 2's introduction. It really looks like a solid entry. Its ridiculous to knock the game because it is taking a different approach. As long as the story is compelling I will be happy.

Braxiatel
Banned User
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Braxiatel » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:53 pm

Emperorpen wrote:It's ridiculous to knock the game because it is taking a different approach. As long as the story is compelling I will be happy.


No, it's not when it's the wrong approach.

User avatar
Mio
Banned User
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:49 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Mio » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:27 pm

curious...

so what is this proper "approach" you speak of?

i'm sorry if you've pointed this out in a previous post

but i just couldn't bear to read two pages of bickering that lead to an off-topic discussion

if you would graciously put it in a nutshell

Braxiatel
Banned User
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Braxiatel » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:53 pm

How about not ditching every single game mechanic that makes Suikoden unique and not setting it in an alternate reality?

KFCrispy
Global Admin
Posts: 5977
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:29 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby KFCrispy » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:50 pm

we hope the unique stuff is kept in Suikoden VI. it's pretty obviously they tried to make this more like FF to appeal to a younger/wider audience. sales for the series have been diminishing since Suikoden IV's disastrous impressions left on players.

User avatar
Mio
Banned User
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:49 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Mio » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:10 am

Braxiatel wrote:How about not ditching every single game mechanic that makes Suikoden unique and not setting it in an alternate reality?

hmmm nothing wrong with a "reformat" every now and then...

a "spring cleaning" when the house gets dirty

an "overhaul" if the car gets faulty

i mean, game mechanics do not define Suikoden

For me, it's the camaraderie, brilliance, and hope i find in each story

it's true that game mechanics play a part in the greatness of Suikoden

but if a new and better one comes along, I'd say jump onto it

or at least get a feel for it and compare it with the old one

negating an idea without even giving it a chance to completely prove itself is rather...

unreasonable... and control freak-ish

Emperorpen
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:58 am

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Emperorpen » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:31 pm

Well put Mio.

Its the minds like Brax here that want games to fit a particular mold. Think back to why the original Suikoden was so impactful. It was a different twist on gameplay sure, but it was really the characters that made the game. Besides, who said that this is going to ditch EVERY gameplay element? There will be war battles similar to Suikoden 3. There will be castle improvements similar to the rest of the Suikodens. There are only 4 characters per party, but there were only 4 characters per party in Suikoden 4. There are no one-on-one duels, but lets be honest with ourselves, they werent well executed in the first place, I can EASILY live without that waste of time. Also, as much as I liked a few character's original weapons, I personally felt that this limited the visual appeal and sense of custimization. The purely melee characters ended up being kind of boring. I think I will like the new system of multiple weapon types, at least personally.

The only stark difference is that the game is in a different setting. The truth is, the setting is in a certain sense actually more in line with the original Suikoden, than 2-5 were. At least the original Suikoden mentioned the million universes. If I recall, and its been a while since Ive played the original, (although I have played it multiple times) I dont remember Harmonia being mentioned, let alone a focal point. Alternate universes are the original "grand" story, considering that we were started with Windy's gate runes etc.

Besides, there may in fact be an incredible tie in to the original games.

Its completely asinine to dismiss the game before playing it. The game may suck, but so far it looks fantastic and reminds me of the visual appeal of Suikoden 2 more than any of the others so far.

Braxiatel
Banned User
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Braxiatel » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:57 pm

Mio wrote:
negating an idea without even giving it a chance to completely prove itself is rather...

unreasonable... and control freak-ish


Not if the idea is wrong.

Emperorpen
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:58 am

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Emperorpen » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:08 am

I already questioned you on what does or does not make the game "wrong," brax.

The game seems to fit right along with most conventions of the Suikoden franchise, other than losing two of the weakest aspects, the individual weapons and one on one duels. I welcome the change, I just hope that they eventually take us back for a final game to explain Harmonia.

Think about it like this....is there really much left for the Suikoden world to investigate? If they stick strictly to the world they are in, there is pretty much only one game left; the final one. I dont mind if they goof off for a while in an alternative world. It kind of fits in a sense. We learned about the Scarlet Moon Empire, which existed in the context of this giant world. The other games then explored parts of that world. Well now we know a lot about that world, which exists in the context of the Million worlds. The future games may explore the Million worlds so that we can better understand the OVERALL picture. Maybe True Runes are only one expression of some deeper theme?

Rezard
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Rezard » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:57 am

Emperorpen wrote: Think about it like this....is there really much left for the Suikoden world to investigate? If they stick strictly to the world they are in, there is pretty much only one game left; the final one.


You are wrong, there is much to investigate in the Suikoden world. Its world is just gingantic, but if they rush and take only what matters most, there should be at least two games to cover the already stablished mysteries and that's if they rush. I wish SIV was on nameless lands and SV on Harmonia, than Konami could pull all unrelated game they want and I wouldnt care.

If Konami really had hopes for Suikoden, they would have already anounced (or at least hinted) a Suikoden VI game on the Suikoden world. This game is nothing but a test to see how Suikoden fairs, to see if it can bring new fans, while keeping the old. Konami doubts Suikoden.

User avatar
Mio
Banned User
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:49 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Mio » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:48 am

Braxiatel wrote:
Mio wrote:
negating an idea without even giving it a chance to completely prove itself is rather...

unreasonable... and control freak-ish


Not if the idea is wrong.

might I indulge you to see the futility of your argument?

negating a wrong idea without even giving it a chance to completely prove itself is rather...

unreasonable... and control freak-ish

seriously, it's Konami's risk to take, not yours

if you think they're making a mistake... then let them

you don't have to go as far as disowning* a soon to be conceived game just to prove your point

that's not just unreasonable and control freak-ish but exaggerating as well

*i believe the term you used was scrapping or something

Braxiatel
Banned User
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Braxiatel » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:26 pm

Mio wrote: if you think they're making a mistake... then let them

you don't have to go as far as disowning* a soon to be conceived game just to prove your point

that's not just unreasonable and control freak-ish but exaggerating as well


Why should I just sit back and watch them ruin the series?

And ENOUGH with the personal attacks!

User avatar
Mio
Banned User
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:49 pm

Re: konami still has hopes in suikoden

Postby Mio » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:02 pm

well lessee... have you accomplished anything with all of your recent whining and moaning?

have you even convinced the public or at least make the majority of the suikosource community to agree in unison that indeed Konami is making a wrong move?

because truth be told, barking in here won't change the developer's minds now would it?

especially when you're pre-empting a decision without giving it a chance first

if you really care about the series, there are other ways to affect change than to scratch an idea that a ton of people put their sweat, time, and effort into

and what personal attacks? you must have me mixed up with somebody else

have i said offending words addressed to you?

you would go and judge an idea as being wrong but when your own ideas gets judged, you take it personal?

my... i believe there is a word for that behavior...

hmm... hypocrisy was it?


Return to “Suikoden Tierkreis General Information”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest