Level 60 characters ranking

A forum for people who have played the game concerning the Sun Rune War to answer gameplay questions.
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Punkaiser
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Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Sat May 12, 2012 11:37 pm

I've done with the new ranking base on physical damage potential.

Click here >>> Suikoden V-Level 60 Characters Physical DD Ranking <<< Click here

Rules to evaluate characters:

1. Ranking was calculated according to pure one strike damage score, critical rate, multi strike rate.

2. As basic, a character with 3000< pure one strike damage<3500 and average critical rate and average multistrike rate is considerred average and ranked at C

3. Every close score get rounded up (e.g. 2950->3001 but not for 2949)

4. With a base as 3000, every 500 more damage of pure one strike gain +1 in rank and every 500 less get penalized as -1
e.g:
3500<damage<4000, rank +1
3000<damage<3500, rank +0
2500<damage<3000 , rank -1
1500<damage<2000, rank -3
...

4. Bonus rank chart for multi strike and critical rate as below:
Supreme=C+3
Very high=C+2
High=C+1
Average=C
Low or no multistrike at all = C-1

End of rules....

Exemples :
-Hazuki:
pure damage: 1132 -> -4 rank
critical rate: Supreme-> +3 rank
multistrike rate: Very High-> +2 rank
Total: C - 4 + 3 +2 =C+1 -> Hazuki's rank is B

-Isabel:
pure damage: 3672-> +1 rank
critical rate: Very High-> +2 rank
multistrike rate: Average-> +0 rank
Total: C + 1 + 2 + 0= C+3-> Isabel's rank is S
Last edited by Punkaiser on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

KFCrispy
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby KFCrispy » Mon May 14, 2012 10:02 am

my Magic Sword topic's last post lists the damage boost potential for characters when they max the right skills and element.

Levi can deal over 3K? how does that math work?

I also don't fully understand your multipliers. why do so many 3-rune characters only get 4X damage? (EDIT: Oh, you apply Power Rune to ATK)
Also, no consideration for Crazed Rune?

i guess i would like to see the runes you are assigning to each character.


Windspun Sets should slightly help with multi-strikes, but most characters who wear it don't have a good chance.
also i don't know if there are too many characters who have this property, but if Samurai Set can't be worn it's possible that the character can still use Engraved Gauntlets for a 5% crit boost.


OH did you account for physical attack affinities for a couple characters? Significant ones are Urda, Isato (A in affinity = 20% boost), and several characters have a B for 10%. (EDIT: looks like you did!)

KFCrispy
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby KFCrispy » Mon May 14, 2012 10:55 am

are you sure Yahr can equip Samurai Set? according to my info Yahr is limited to M equipment--Samurai set uses a Heavy Arm and Heavy Leg piece.

haven't verified myself, but based on the info i have, only these characters can use Samurai Set:
Belcoot
Bergen
Cius
Dinn
Galleon
Gavaya
Goesch
Gunde
Hazuki
Isabel
Lelei
Mathias
Nakula
Wabon (you missed this - probably put on Yahr by accident)

Zegai can't use a full Samurai Set but can use Engraved Gauntlets.

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Punkaiser
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Mon May 14, 2012 11:34 am

My file is lacking a lot of explanations, i guess.
- I don't count Crazed and fury in because of their side effects, low accuracy will actually lower damage modifier ( miss rate = negative DM)
- In the note i explained how the runes are generally set:
chars with 1 rune slot -> boost rune
2slots-> boost/dbl edge
3slots->boost/dble edge/power, so you should notice those with * mark in their base attack are all 3 rune slotters.
-All calculations are based on pure damage which means enemies defences are ignored. Look at Levi case :
at lv 60 with his lv16 weapon Levi reaches 344 attack without gear. Equip him with boost, dbl edge and pixie will offer 8x DM then with his shoot at B affinity-> 8*1.1=8.8 DM , his pure damage becomes 344*8.8=3027 This means if Levi uses this setup and shoot at a 0 defence enemy <neutral to shoot> the damage should be 3027 but with same setup if Levi shoot on Sunri he should deal just
(344-300)*8.8= 387 damage =)) Power rune becomes much better in that case but i can't go into too much details for every cases, so just ignore enemy defence for an easy plan.
- Thanks for pointing out about Wabon, it's true i forgot to put samurai set on his case. By the way, yahr still belongs to group which has access to full samurai set(checked in game since i already used him in some playthroughs) . I think your list 're quite accurate just missing Yahr. I took characters database from Blazefeeler (already gave him credits in the file), if you find anything not accurate please feedback and i will not hesitate to check and modify the ranking
here's blazefeeler's datas: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/929668-suik ... faqs/42818

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Punkaiser
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Tue May 15, 2012 2:25 am

Checked to see how exactly is samurai's equiment type:
Minamoto helm and taira armor actually belong to Medium type so no wonder many characters could wear them while fuji gloves and tachi greaves are heavy type gears.
I guess Blazefeeler should modify Yahr's datas which turn out to be same as hazuki: upper->medium and lower -> heavy

KFCrispy
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby KFCrispy » Tue May 15, 2012 11:50 am

i haven't seen Crazed reduce accuracy and the description doesn't say it anywhere. the useful thing about Crazed is the power boost is used in formation attacks, but that's not relevant in your spreadsheet anyway. obviously since you can't control who to attack and prevents unites it has its limitations, but I find the damage boost is worth it for 'normal' playing (it also allows for continuous attack on to other targets unlike unites).

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Rooks
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Rooks » Tue May 15, 2012 4:42 pm

Crazed Runes do lower Accuracy in my opinion. It is not mentioned in the rune's description, but I did some rather extensive play-testing right after the burning of the Beaver's Village and found that it did. Of course, as the game progresses, often by the end characters accuracy will be so high that the loss can be ignored, but throughout the middle of the game Mid-Range and Long-Range characters are hampered by missed attacks when using it. I also found out something odd: long-range characters like Faylen who have high Technique stats tend to miss far more often than they should. the game might use different formula for determining Short-Range, Mid-Range, and Long-Range attacks, based on the current battle Formation.
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Punkaiser
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Tue May 15, 2012 8:04 pm

Yea, Rooks spoke for my part, we could notice the drop in accuracy from using Crazed through observations not from in-game descriptions or anywhere. Even characters with crazy high tech like cathari and killey start to miss from time to time when crazed rune is equipped, the miss rate prolly equal to fury rune 's case.

I'm fine with uncontrollable chars but can't overlook the fact they often miss their attacks although their positions in formation were rightly set.

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Sasarai10
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Sasarai10 » Fri May 18, 2012 9:02 pm

Prince better than Richard? :shock:


I've been using Richard recently at the mountain were you are going to fight with Roy,and with his Swallow rune he is a tremendous damage dealer were he could score over 2000 hp,at level 47,and with his weapons fixed up to level 12

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Punkaiser
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Fri May 18, 2012 9:32 pm

Prince is better than Richard when he unite attacks with Miakis/Lyon/Roy since these unites bring him extra 1.5x DM
If Prince normal attacks while Richard use swallow rune, of course Richard would be a bit better in average because of his higher chance to multi strike.

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Rooks
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Rooks » Tue May 22, 2012 12:41 am

Are you sure you are not being a bit hard on Nick, too? I noticed you have him listed as an "A" rank but not an "S", this probably because of his lack of a useful unite. But one thing struck me as odd: you have his skills listed as Agility/ Triple Harmony, but you do know his Fate Control epic skill maxes out at "S" rank, right? With that epic in play, I imagine his pure one-strike DMG would break the 3,000 threshold you set.

Here is how I have him written up in my walkthrough:

"As far as Nick, he has decent stats, but not enough to make him stand
out, especially considering your other amazing Short-Range characters. But,
at around LV 50 he receives his second Rune Slot. Followed by his third open
Rune Slot at Level 55.

His Skills add to his decent stats. Triple Harmony and Fate Control make for
a powerful Skill combination, and Nick's Fate Control Maxes at S-rank, while
Triple Harmony goes full out to double-S. This makes Nick a worthless
character at LV 15, and the most surprisingly powerful and underrated
character in the game at LV 55+. More than anyone, he stands out as the best
of the late-game characters."

the main problems here being that you get him very late in the game, and the fact that he comes at a low level and you have to wait until Lv 50 for the second rune slot and Lv 55 for the third.

Well, I am not criticizing, just pointing out a small issue I have.
Ominous Latinus Phraseus

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Punkaiser
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Tue May 22, 2012 2:23 am

Don't worry about my ego, I'm thankful that you care though.

Well, you're right that i was being harsh to several characters but certainly i didn't take any favorite factor in account if you look at Urda and Isato both passed 3500 and yet stay in A category because in my opinion, there're little error ratio in their stats were all caused from random stats growth, so it means this Urda may pass to S rank but in another player's game she might have a worse growth and ends up just being qualified for A rank.

Back to Nick, apply with that same logic plus one point: fate control does bring him more 15 attack to barely step in S zone but then you will loose 20 speed from Agility skill. Nick's speed is at average level (180) at level 60 so he need all boost from equipments and skills to reach *high* standard, with fate control equipped Nick end up with fair chance to multi-strike at best and i don't think his (15 *4x modifier=60 attacks) from fate control could make up for the loss.

but i guess i will also have to reorganize the sheet for a clearer look and even set standards more precisely to show how to consider a number as low, average, fair, high, very high or supreme and work on strict critetia to nominate rank like i did with S3 ranking so we could avoid the random growth effect. A minor change in ranking might occur then.

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Rooks
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Rooks » Tue May 22, 2012 12:12 pm

True. Random growth has some problems, I think much more so than in Suikoden IV. I can see why they would add it: the developers may have wanted you to use different characters on each play-through depending on their stats. I do remember that in the Official Strategy guide, Levi was listed as having the highest magic stat, but in all of my play-throughs Zerase had that crown, with Eresh and Levi coming in second and third, respectively.

The randomness of the stat growth does not change each character much, but it might put -say- Viki with her chain magic over Zerase for magic DMG, and Miakis over Richard for continuous attacks, etc.

I think I might like Nick more than he deserves, too, just because he is a surprisingly powerful character that really does not get a lot of attention, mostly due to the fact that you recruit him so late.
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Punkaiser
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby Punkaiser » Mon May 28, 2012 4:03 am

Done with the updates, i've modified my first post with new ranking rules applied. Hope it makes things clearer, just the equipments part is still hidden but i will answer manually if there's request because it'd be rather long to add that part in.

SuikoMJM
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Re: Level 60 characters ranking

Postby SuikoMJM » Tue May 29, 2012 1:32 am

Even though you try to remedy that with equipment, I think speed should also be a factor, since some characters will sometimes act after the enemy, or not act at all, since other party members will finish the battle first, heavily negating their contribution to the party. Obviously, somebody has to be the slowest in every party.

And I know it's beyond the scope of this guide, but I favor characters with a high natural damage, or that allow for the most passive damage gains (rune slots), over characters with special runes, or unites, just because you can boost the damage so high in this game that auto-battle pretty much does all the work for you. Using anything else becomes less efficient in the end.

If only the encounters were tougher, it might be worth it just to see if I can figure out a way to be more efficient, but otherwise 99% dies in the first round anyway, so it's just overkill. Too bad tougher enemies isn't an option for New Game+. Experimentation is fun, but I've always gotten bored with it for that reason.
Last edited by SuikoMJM on Tue May 29, 2012 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.


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