Character Analysis, Tiers discussion

[Takamashi]

Is there a tier list for this game?
if not why not make one?
we could include
-co. attacks
-joining time
-starting stats
-average 50 stats
-ease to train
-supports with other characters
-affinity

[KFCrispy]

tier lists are extremely subjective, so they never work out. pointing out strengths and weaknesses in characters and how they work with others is productive, though.

"Best character by Classes thread": http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewt ... =40&t=5390

mage setup discussion: http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewt ... =40&t=5376

character discussion on Sigurd: http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewt ... =40&t=7176
character discussion on Charlemagne and Reinbach: http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewt ... =40&t=5246
character discussion on Snowe: http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewt ... =40&t=5067

DarthMordechai from gamefaqs has written up a Character Analysis guide on gamefaqs. It's not too in-depth, but it's a product of the discussion we had on gamefaqs: http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file ... alysis.txt

level 50 stats and other info thread: http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=5450

[patapi]

I seem to recall a similar attempt at ranking the Suikoden II cast using a somewhat detailed points system on one of the older Suikosource boards. We might be able to replicate that to improve the objectivity of this tier.

[Takamashi]

so what stats will we use to determine average lvl 50 stats?
also how many tiers will we have? im thinking
god
high
medium
low
garbage

[KFCrispy]

i rather just rank by class or purpose/job. mage, archer, great sword, etc.. i don't see the point of saying "since character A can use magic, that's +10 points, while character B can use a kangacorn, +10, meaning A is just as good as B" .... in what?!

[Takamashi]

Kangacorns are more movement. thats a plus. also you need to think about individual stats. also does the character join early? what if the character that didnt use magic has supports but the character that did has none? im fairly certain that character that doesnt use magic wins in that scenario. there are some characters though who are fairly close. but i guess we can do 2 seperate tier lists if y'all want.

[Takamashi]

I think we would do one tier list. there are many things to consider. such as an archers 2-3 range which can hurt him considerably.

[KFCrispy]

i think some classes are naturally more useful than other classes, so maybe this and the class discussion thread can help build a single tier list...

Lazlo is in his own class, he is really a dual-class character with MP based on MAG (mage) but the ability to use Magic Sword (non-mage), plus his True Rune is extremely unique (compared to other characters with "unique runes" that are very similar to others) and has many uses. Lazlo is basically god-tier, since he is basically a Mage with more abilities. He also can't permanently die.

Mages with Extra Move are also god-tier in my opinion. their variety of spells offers the versatility of fast, single-target attacks, elemental-tile attacks/heal, long-range nukes that place elemental tiles, and with a Wizard Rune, they deal insane damage. Most of them can even unite for a free, instant long-range nuke. With Extra Move, fast chanting (just increase/equip their elemental affinities, and increasing MAG helps) and long range, they will clear any map faster than any other character.
Their obvious weakness is not being able to use physical attacks, generally low PDF and HP, but with a Wizard Rune, they basically can't be touched. There are few enemies resistant to strong magic attacks, which includes the final boss (but they can really help clear the final battle maps to make it easy for the physical attackers).

Great Sword users are generally the most useless characters. You need to substitute them in to be effective, because they will not reach the enemies if they are in your starting line-up. They generally have low skill which means lack of accuracy (don't expect too many successful counter attacks), lack of rune slots, and lack of MP. they are generally pretty slow so their average damage over time is going to be lower than other characters.

there's also a whole crew of support-only characters... should we consider how they can affect the characters? (support characters are not very significant or effective, from my experience, but YMMV)

[Takamashi]

it depends. will the support characters actually be fielded or are they just worthless and will never be used no matter what?

[KFCrispy]

i'm not making the rules..

[Takamashi]

im asking you though because i need someone else or this will probably turn out to have alot of bias in it.

[KFCrispy]

well like i said, from my personal experience, i've never found them useful for actual fighting purposes (Gary, Emma..). Cedric can be useful to position someone in the middle of a battle or to end a battle quickly when your objective is to reach a destination (Obel levels).

[Takamashi]

in any case i will need a group of people in order to do the tier list. i need different opinions. if anybody wants they can type out thier thoughts for me on what the tier list would be.

[patapi]

Post the tier that you have in mind, and I'm sure others could add and edit the tier as we go along.

For support characters, they are pretty situational. Noah and Rene are particularly useful earlier on for treasure hunting and item collections. Cedric is ideal for tactics that rely on speed. I also found Yu to be a very solid full-time healer compared to Water or Wind mages, mostly due to his extended range.

[Takamashi]

okay. ill get to work on the tier list ASAP.