theory on the sun rune

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son_michael
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theory on the sun rune

Postby son_michael » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 am

we know from kings blog that the sun rune will represent "the suffering of creation" but I havent seen anybody mention it!-_- so I feel compelled to create a topic and discuss this, with that said..keep in mind that a real sun has nothing to do with the sun rune, king has said they didnt want the sun rune to affiliated with a real sun in any way, they wanted a unique feel

it seems to me that the sun rune's dual nature will be to create things{such as a prosperous kingdom ect ect}that are good and then lash out with a very negative effect, emphasizing the "suffering" aspect of the rune. I'm thinking that once you use the rune you will pay the price by doing/becoming what you hate the most or by having situations that you never wanted to happen occur. I'n arshtates case, I believe she was said to be the kindest and most beloved queen, correct? Her worst fear was probably having an evil plaugue her queendom, hence why she was so quick to use the sun rune when she though her queendom was in danger. She used its power to save everything she held dear but at the same time the dual nature of the rune made her become that which she was afraid of..an evil plaugue to her queendom..can you imagine the suffering she would feel inside of her heart if she could actually be aware of what she was doing? yet had no control over her body?{this would apply to when the sun rune completley takes over her and she never goes back to her old self..if that happens}


I think the suffering concept is preety easy to understand, the real mystery here is the creation aspect, to create miracles or events would seem to be the best explanation of that dual nature, but I cant help thinking there has to be more to it...well I cant think of anything right now, im hoping you fine members can though!

as for how the sun rune relates to the balance of the suikoverse and its logos,pathos and whatever else os...Ill leave that up to demon eye :D

concerning dawn and dusk runes relation to the sun rune, im thinking they are aspects of the sun rune

dawn could be symbalised as "the beggining" "new" "life" while dusk could symbalise "the end" "death" "sadness"


im thinking the prince recieves the dawn rune, as it will represent new hope and the dawning of a new era, wheras derassa will have the dusk rune which will represent her desire to end it all, to kill the hero and possibly conquer falena, amazingly this would be a direct dual opposition to the dawn rune and the prince

the queens sun rune is probably the combined version of dawn and dusk,while dawn and dusk are probably just offsprings. I believe all 3 runes are connected, they all posses the same power of the suffering of creation, with the exception of dawn only being able to use the positive aspects and dusk only able to symbalise the negative aspects, and of course the sun rune is much stronger since its a true rune

well im sure if we can put our heads together, we can figure all this out!

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Postby ShardStar » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:42 am

I agree about the Sun Rune and it's powerful corrupting effects on a person. A two edge sword when over used leads the person down a path they did not expect, that does seem to be what the Trailers of shown so far. A Queen who looks clearly driven insane from that Sun Rune's use. That perhaps the Dusk and Dawn Runes are a way to keep the Sun Rune in check if used correctly.

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Postby KFCrispy » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:36 am

how would you contrast this rune from Punishment or Rune of Beginning?

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Postby ShardStar » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:58 am

Well we don't know enough I think to really say, the Sun Rune so far looks more to twisting someone rather then draining their life. Unlike the Rune of Begining the Sun Rune is whole it would seem, if that is the way it will go and then be split in the end to better control it's powers. I think we will have to wait to get the full story on the Sun Rune to be able to really contrast them with the past TR's.

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Postby son_michael » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:14 am

KFCrispy wrote:how would you contrast this rune from Punishment or Rune of Beginning?


not sure why you asked this question, or if it was aimed at me or shad star

the sun rune has 2 things in common with the punishment rune {IMO}

1. they both have negative effects on there bearers
2. they both are capable of mass destruction/death aka rune of dusk

the rune of begining has 1 thing in common with the sun rune

both runes seem to represent a cycle or a cirrcle, meaning both runes symbolize the end and a new beggining

well this is if all my assumptions about the sun runes power are true.. if im wrong then all these comparisons cant be made..

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killey
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Postby killey » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:21 am

I think KFCrispy actually wants to know how the sun rune is different from the rune of punishment and the rune of beginning. I think.

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Postby demon eye » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:15 pm

I would like to say that I don't think this True Rune has anything to do with life/death or beginning/end. We have True Runes that already deal with that aspect in the Rune of Life and Death and the Rune of Beginning..which ultimately doubles as the Rune of End in all aspects if you take it technically. I won't go into detail explaining why.

I think the aspect of creation that the Sun Rune is referring to is the aspect of nurturing and fertility. I would suggest that this True Rune effects the actual world by giving supple and fertile land and allowing for the harvesting of nature.

I think this True Rune will show the aspects of the land giving back to the people and the aspects of how the land and the individual depend on one another.

I do not believe that the Sun Rune naturally drives a person crazy, as I don't believe any True Rune has this effect. I believe that the Queen has become corrupt due to her own insecurities and her new acquisition of power and not the effects of the Sun Rune itself.

As for how the Dawn and Dusk Runes will effect the Sun Rune, it seems as if they are parts encompassing Summer/Spring and Autumn/Fall. Summer/Spring is when the Sun is at its peak and the land is warm and fruitful. Autumn/Fall represents the Sun being at its lowest point and the land is more barren and harsh.

This True Rune most likely is a Logos type and allows warmth, fertility and sustenance to encompass reality. The duality of this True Rune is that it can also allow for barren wastelands, starvation, hunger and pestilence.

~ "Come thee, my warmth shall be a beacon. Let my heavenly rays grant thine land bountiful fruits."

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patapi
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Postby patapi » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:35 pm

As always, I really like your analysis of the true runes.

demon eye wrote:I do not believe that the Sun Rune naturally drives a person crazy, as I don't believe any True Rune has this effect. I believe that the Queen has become corrupt due to her own insecurities and her new acquisition of power and not the effects of the Sun Rune itself.


However, we do know the True Runes possess a certain amount of consciousness/personality that might have led to such corruption. But I think this is a more generic feature of all the true runes, based on Dzerassa's line in the first trailer. Her own insecurities should play an important role, but that'd probably be only one half of the story.

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Postby son_michael » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:47 pm

ha ha thats great, you never fail to impress demon eye

the problem is, everything your saying sounds like it is in comparison to the real sun, and king has said in his blog that they wanted the sun rune to be... well here's the quote

king wrote:The “Sun” has a concrete motif, so everyone may already have an image in their head, but such is not the truth.

We’re talking the moon here, so many images and designs of the sun have been conceptualized all around the world throughout the history of mankind. In other words, in both fantasy and reality, there’s one sun, in expressing that there’s but one sun in that world, if we design it normally, there’s the possibility that it’ll end up the same. So there was a need to express originality and feeling of existence for Suikoden’s runes. And like that, we shifted into the “suffering of creation.”

I believe the three completed runes possess a state of being that express the world of Suikoden in just a glance.


so you see I would think that most of your oppinions on what the sun rune will represent are very close to the common perception of the sun{such as the sun giving rays of light to the world}

I dunno, your probably right about this but im thinking that the suffering of creation is more along the lines of creating miracles/things you want and then paying the price for it

while the duality would be you suffer for it

just my take on kings comments though....

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Postby demon eye » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:38 pm

Well, if you think about the Sun Rune as the actual Sun you would have to look at it as a celestrial body and a star. The fact that the True Rune is called the Sun Rune and King states that it has to do with the suffering of creation implies that it will have to do with what the Sun represents symbolically. The Sun symbolizes nurturing and fertillity, but this has nothing to do with the physical aspect of the Sun.

Nature bears the most suffering due to creation and to use the Sun as the embodiment of the nature that helps sustain life seems like what they are trying to suggest by those statements by King.

Also, the fact that King seems to imply that they will conceptualize more than one Sun makes me more confident that he is referring to what the Sun symbolizes in nature. The waning and rising..Dawn and Dusk.

As for the consciousness and personality of the True Runes, that is quite true. But, that is them driving towards their own goals. They naturally choose bearers that will be able to attain this goal so it should not be necessary to alter their personalities.

I think it is more evident that the effect on the bearer is due to how each bearer learns to deal with the destiny and fate that the True Rune gives them once they are chosen rather than the True Rune taking control of the bearer themselves. The weight of those responsibilities are shown to effect each bearer in different ways. I think that the weight of the responsibility the Sun Rune puts on the Queen drives her to insanity based on how she coped with the situation.

Just think about it, you are giving a mortal person access to a powerful weapon and they are faced with chooses. You can do two things. You can do the easy thing and use this power to do evil, gain power and let it consume you or you can do what's right, the hard thing, use the power for good and follow the path of virtue. Not too many people can make th right impartial decision.

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son_michael
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Postby son_michael » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:59 pm

I never thought of that... so your saying the sun rune will represent nature and symbalise natures cycle of life and the going and passing of the days?

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Postby demon eye » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:39 pm

Yes, something like that. I believe it does embody nature and the give and take relationship it has with the inhabitants of the world.

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Postby Released_Souls » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:56 am

ShardStar wrote:I agree about the Sun Rune and it's powerful corrupting effects on a person. A two edge sword when over used leads the person down a path they did not expect, that does seem to be what the Trailers of shown so far. A Queen who looks clearly driven insane from that Sun Rune's use. That perhaps the Dusk and Dawn Runes are a way to keep the Sun Rune in check if used correctly.


son_michael wrote:the queens sun rune is probably the combined version of dawn and dusk,while dawn and dusk are probably just offsprings. I believe all 3 runes are connected, they all posses the same power of the suffering of creation, with the exception of dawn only being able to use the positive aspects and dusk only able to symbalise the negative aspects, and of course the sun rune is much stronger since its a true rune


Just some wild guess: that as son_michael had said, that the dawn and dusk runes are a offspring, of the greater sun rune...and that the main job for the existance of the dusk and dawn in the main rune (after the 3 is comibned) is to limit the power of the sun rune part of it....
As in nature, dawn means sunrise, or better, the beginning of the sun, while dusk means sunfall, or the end of the sun. By setting a limit to when the sun raise to shine to the earth and fall for people to sleep, it mantains the natural flow of earth.
Yet, take dusk and dawn away, you get Sun it self, there, but never setting down (dusk), shinning over the earth 24 hours.....(warmth first, then pain because of the prolong sun)

As for the Queen and the Sun rune, there is a bit of similarity, first starting very kind to people, but because of the prolong usage and control of the rune, the Queen later became evil.....


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