The next Suikoden.. gotta be harder

[Nemesis]

I dont' know how you guys do it.. but HOW MUCH LONGER WILL IT TAKE!!?!!?!! I"M losing my HEad! Damn it, they better not Drop the GS series because I will be really mad! I mean, while they aren't thinking about GS6, why not take this TIME to redo 1 and 2? I know it isn't part of this post.. .but I have to let it out soemwhere.

[VinceValentine]

I ask myself that everytime I play Suikoden, Nemesis, why oh why would they ever drop this amazing series, they'd have to be crazy.

geez talk about the most paradoxical statement of all time

make up your damn mind

the series definitely ain't easy if it requires you to spend decent amount of time in each dungeon you face

i think what you really want is more gameplay time with suikoden

Yes, I can kind of see how I would be contradicting myself in my post but I forgot to say a few things which would make it be viewed differently. However, I thought I made it pretty clear when I said when I had trouble with the Wind Rincar that it was a simple mistake as the first couple tries I didnt attack the water rune first, but that was more of a mistake on my part that made that fight challenging and not the actual game itself. So essentially in all the fights in Suikoden that I had trouble in it was more or less my fault not the games and that goes along with what I had said about it not being all that challenging.

I agree with you on it taking lots of time in dungeons but thats a challenge on your patience and not really anything else.

My point is, most other rpgs are more challenging, this is more or less just playing through the story, recruiting characters, doing some major war battles which are simple and dont take much strategy, its not like playing Command & Conquer or Warcraft thats for sure, doing a few minigames here and there most of which are pretty easy, for some potch or items.

The games mostly a breeze if you costomize your characters properly, and yes for Suikoden to be a little bigger, that I wouldnt mind, the games are pretty short, though SV was pretty long but thats because it took forever for the plot to start out.

[Mio]

well how about we try not to compare Suikoden to other games hmm??

if Suikoden would fall to your stereotypical RPG game (whatever that is) be it harder or more challenging,

won't that make it less unique??

i mean one of the reasons i played thru my first Suiko game is it being a one of a kind game

falling it in line with the other common RPG games would make the Suiko series like...

..."common"

[Mikain Clan King]

Yeah I agree Suikoden 3 was actually very hard nearing the end...that frikin water dragon made me stop playing S3 for a year (played Suikoden 2 alot during my time off)...and I'm making a new topic with what I was going to say here, but it could bring up a whole nother conversation.

[VinceValentine]

well how about we try not to compare Suikoden to other games hmm??

if Suikoden would fall to your stereotypical RPG game (whatever that is) be it harder or more challenging,

won't that make it less unique??

i mean one of the reasons i played thru my first Suiko game is it being a one of a kind game

falling it in line with the other common RPG games would make the Suiko series like...

..."common"

That wouldn't make it common just because it was harder, if the story, the setting, the world, the characters and everything else was still the same then I dont think that would make the Suiko series "common" as you said. I wouldn't mind for it to just be a little harder, atleast add a few more optional bosses that are just as powerful if not more powerful than the final boss, that can drop some good armour or runes or perhaps even the Golden hammer instead of just simply finding it at your local shop(rarity or not preferably speaking of SIII snce I had the most trouble getting that one to appear, its still quite easy to obtain). I think they should just make some of the end-game callibur items a little harder to get, now tell me whats wrong with that? How would that change the entire game and make it a common RPG? That cant turn the entire series into a cliche, what would do that was if the developers messed with the storyline and made it into a cliche style story. I think you just dont want it to be harder but for some people, they like the challenge, it makes the game more interesting.

[JanusThePaladin]

Yes, I can kind of see how I would be contradicting myself in my post but I forgot to say a few things which would make it be viewed differently. However, I thought I made it pretty clear when I said when I had trouble with the Wind Rincar that it was a simple mistake as the first couple tries I didnt attack the water rune first, but that was more of a mistake on my part that made that fight challenging and not the actual game itself. So essentially in all the fights in Suikoden that I had trouble in it was more or less my fault not the games and that goes along with what I had said about it not being all that challenging.

I agree with you on it taking lots of time in dungeons but thats a challenge on your patience and not really anything else.

My point is, most other rpgs are more challenging, this is more or less just playing through the story, recruiting characters, doing some major war battles which are simple and dont take much strategy, its not like playing Command & Conquer or Warcraft thats for sure, doing a few minigames here and there most of which are pretty easy, for some potch or items.

The games mostly a breeze if you costomize your characters properly, and yes for Suikoden to be a little bigger, that I wouldnt mind, the games are pretty short, though SV was pretty long but thats because it took forever for the plot to start out.

Personally, i think that if a game requires this many qualifying terms to make it difficult, its difficult enough. Anytime you can be tricked into making a mistake and that mistake COSTS YOU its a difficulty.

[The_Colt]

well how about we try not to compare Suikoden to other games hmm??

if Suikoden would fall to your stereotypical RPG game (whatever that is) be it harder or more challenging,

won't that make it less unique??

i mean one of the reasons i played thru my first Suiko game is it being a one of a kind game

falling it in line with the other common RPG games would make the Suiko series like...

..."common"

That wouldn't make it common just because it was harder, if the story, the setting, the world, the characters and everything else was still the same then I dont think that would make the Suiko series "common" as you said. I wouldn't mind for it to just be a little harder, atleast add a few more optional bosses that are just as powerful if not more powerful than the final boss, that can drop some good armour or runes or perhaps even the Golden hammer instead of just simply finding it at your local shop(rarity or not preferably speaking of SIII snce I had the most trouble getting that one to appear, its still quite easy to obtain). I think they should just make some of the end-game callibur items a little harder to get, now tell me whats wrong with that? How would that change the entire game and make it a common RPG? That cant turn the entire series into a cliche, what would do that was if the developers messed with the storyline and made it into a cliche style story. I think you just dont want it to be harder but for some people, they like the challenge, it makes the game more interesting.

ah you said my mind.. this is exactly what I mean.. thank you

[JanusThePaladin]

Honestly, you guys keep talking about how easy this game is, but lets think about this. How many times have you played a Suikoden game? I know i've played s1 atleast 8 times, same as S2. I've played S3 twice, S4 3 times, and S5 once. And Tactics twice. Now noting that each game follows similar parameters of difficulty and strategy, it is not illogical to think that after a period of time the games in the series become easy. You remember things, build up fun new strategies, do things a different way. I think what you guys are missing out on is that once you do the same things over and over again, they become easy to you. Practice makes perfect. I remember having more trouble than it was worth trying to beat Neclord. Now everytime i play S1 I train in his castle til i'm strong enough to take him on. In S2 i remember getting reamed by Luca Blight repeatedly. And with the story arc and the 2 previous fights against him, that was annoying as hell. But now I have no trouble because i train better on the way there and balance my teams better.

My point is, you guys have enough experience in the Suikoden world to change a moderately dificult game into an easy game.... and then complain about it! Cmon now!

[VinceValentine]

No you are missing the point, its not the fact that we are complaining about it as we arent disscussing the difficulty for the storyline bosses and regular enemies for the normal game, we are disscussing optional bosses and a trial dungeon filled with very hard enemies. Lots of RPG's have incredibly easy story bosses but they have optional dungeons and bosses. Thats why its called optional, it doesnt have any effect on the game itself, its just a way to give you a great challenge as well as being rewarded with great items. Thats the whole point of it being optional, you dont have to do it if you dont want to, as it is not required to beat the game. Just like after you complete your first playthrough, you may find a normal game to be too easy for you so you instead give the optional dungeon a try. Challenges let people think more and take the recreational activity of gaming one level higher. Taking one is a sure way of enhancing your knowledge and skills at any game.

For example: It's like choosing to play God of War in God Mode rather than Easy Mode. The optional bosses/dungeon would be like playing Suikoden in God Mode.

[Quing]

I honestly don't see any point to making the Suikoden games harder. Difficulty is simply not what the series is about. I'd much rather spend my time exploring the world and story than doing pointless leveling. That is, indeed, one of the biggest flaws with the Final Fantasy series. You just sort of go along with the plot until you get to a point where you are required to spend hours leveling up just to be able to beat a tough boss. Hence, I frequently get bored halfway through and never finish the game. Making a game hard is simply a lame excuse to draw out the time that it takes to play it. The only exception would be if they added things to make you use more strategy. If they were clever enough about making the game harder, and made a Suikoden closer to a puzzle game, I could see that being satisfying, but making hard bosses just to make the player waste countless hours leveling up is stupid. I like to think that Suikoden is a smarter series than that.

Now as to an optional dungeon, the problem is that nothing in Suikoden is there just to be an extra bit. Every place is there to give you either greater insight into the world or into the plot. Hence, a sidequest dungeon would inevitably be worth exploring. And so I would once again waste hours of my life doing pointless leveling. I don't have that sort of time.

[Antimatzist]

Now as to an optional dungeon, the problem is that nothing in Suikoden is there just to be an extra bit. Every place is there to give you either greater insight into the world or into the plot. Hence, a sidequest dungeon would inevitably be worth exploring. And so I would once again waste hours of my life doing pointless leveling. I don't have that sort of time.

But he good thing on Suikoden is that Leveling up just needs 10 Minutes, at most. Then you are at the same Level as your enemies. And that is what makes Suikoden so darn easy.

Even though Eresh Dungeon`s Boss was a really tough figt, imo. I had quite a lot problems with him( ithink only one of my teammembers survived :-O), but after that, the game was even easier, as you have leveled ahead of the normal level ups(I mean I was at Level 50 and was supposed to be Level 40, I think)

[Runemaster]

Hard or not, I don't really care! I'm just sure I'll be loyal to uikoden!!

But I do hope so that the next'll be tougher. NOT A LOT!!!! not a lot, like you're stuck in a place, desperate on how to beat a boss or sorta like that.

[VinceValentine]

I honestly don't see any point to making the Suikoden games harder. Difficulty is simply not what the series is about. I'd much rather spend my time exploring the world and story than doing pointless leveling. That is, indeed, one of the biggest flaws with the Final Fantasy series. You just sort of go along with the plot until you get to a point where you are required to spend hours leveling up just to be able to beat a tough boss. Hence, I frequently get bored halfway through and never finish the game. Making a game hard is simply a lame excuse to draw out the time that it takes to play it. The only exception would be if they added things to make you use more strategy. If they were clever enough about making the game harder, and made a Suikoden closer to a puzzle game, I could see that being satisfying, but making hard bosses just to make the player waste countless hours leveling up is stupid. I like to think that Suikoden is a smarter series than that.

Now as to an optional dungeon, the problem is that nothing in Suikoden is there just to be an extra bit. Every place is there to give you either greater insight into the world or into the plot. Hence, a sidequest dungeon would inevitably be worth exploring. And so I would once again waste hours of my life doing pointless leveling. I don't have that sort of time.

Re read what I said on the first posts. I said it is not a nessesity to do the optional dungeon because its called -optional-. Lots of other games have most of their areas being a part in the story's plot but they also have a optional dungeon, they arent supposed to have any part in the plot whatsoever, they are there strictly to test a player. Also, leveling is not as much required as you think, having a good rune setup and decent armour on your characters, as well as decent characters themselves, mages/physical attackers alike. So for the first half of the game you'll see clear differences for levels because you simply do not get any great magic arsenal but as runes and armour start to take place they fade more and more since you'll be high enough level just by going through the story for your runes to be maxed out and thus you'll only be leveling for a few higher HP and mediocre stat bonuses which doesnt really have any relevance to beat anything in the games. Besides if you want to increase your stats that badly, you could always waste time using the stat item trick which is cheating but nevertheless its there in the game to use and not only available via a cheat device.

Leveling doesn't take long at all in this game either as what was mentioned before, level 60 is incredibly easy to get by the endgame and if you choose to level beyond that then thats up to you but like I said its not required. Thats not to say that maybe an optional dungeon would make that required but the enemies in it would be fought in a less grinding way as I'm sure they'd give great amounts of experience points. It would make getting to level 99 more meaningful but the bosses would still be challenging even if you were at level 99 as they are in all optional dungeons, to test your skills.

By the way, I'm assuming you havent heard of the No Sphere Grid challenges for FFX? It's not required to grind in Final Fantasy either.

[Mio]

well how about we try not to compare Suikoden to other games hmm??

if Suikoden would fall to your stereotypical RPG game (whatever that is) be it harder or more challenging,

won't that make it less unique??

i mean one of the reasons i played thru my first Suiko game is it being a one of a kind game

falling it in line with the other common RPG games would make the Suiko series like...

..."common"

That wouldn't make it common just because it was harder, if the story, the setting, the world, the characters and everything else was still the same then I dont think that would make the Suiko series "common" as you said. I wouldn't mind for it to just be a little harder, atleast add a few more optional bosses that are just as powerful if not more powerful than the final boss, that can drop some good armour or runes or perhaps even the Golden hammer instead of just simply finding it at your local shop(rarity or not preferably speaking of SIII snce I had the most trouble getting that one to appear, its still quite easy to obtain). I think they should just make some of the end-game callibur items a little harder to get, now tell me whats wrong with that? How would that change the entire game and make it a common RPG? That cant turn the entire series into a cliche, what would do that was if the developers messed with the storyline and made it into a cliche style story. I think you just dont want it to be harder but for some people, they like the challenge, it makes the game more interesting.

true enough that there's absolutely nothing wrong in making the game a wee bit tougher

why i'm against this is because the reasons to support the suggestion had to stem from comparing Suikoden to other games

other people like the challenge, i don't

i guess i'll never say, "Dude you gotta play Suikoden, the optional boss was uber!!"

my appetite for RPG was already satisfied by the series (from a non-comparative view point)

i guess ya can't have em all...

[darkphoenix]

I really dont mind the game to be fairly easy compared to a lot of other RPG, but I enjoy this series like I enjoy a book: going through over and onver cause the story is amazing, the character, the historical background, geography, everything is so intertwined and complex. It's just great to try get the smallest new detail about the plot or some guy in your team. IMO it brings more to the game than fighting over and over till youi reach a decent level, beat the boss, and what's next? a tougher boss...