My Ideal Suikoden 6

A place to post news and also give your ideas about the future of the Suikoden series.
Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
Sewerpigeon
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Sewerpigeon » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:48 am

Suikoden VI


This installment focuses on the enigmatic country of Nagarea, exploring the origins of its theocratic regime, its historic aggression with Falena and the eventual downfall of the religion which holds the civilian populace in a vice-like grip of lies and deceit.

Geographic Location: Nagarea
Culture/Climate: Predominantly South-American, particularly Aztec, Mayan, and Amazonian. Most of the country is swamped in dense jungle
Hero(ine): Yaretzi - Aztec (Nahuatl) meaning ‘you will always be loved’.
Hero: Montezuma – Aztec (Nahuatl) meaning ‘Lord frowns in anger’.
True Rune: Rune of Sacrifice – splits into the Worship Rune / Forfeit Rune

Synopsis:

A few hundred years ago (prior to the foundation of the Nagarea Theocracy) ....


Yaretzi and Montezuma reside in a small jungle village which guards the Rune of Sacrifice, passing it down through time and acting as
custodians.

As a tradition, every year a human sacrifice must be made to the rune to ensure that it continues to provide prosperity for the village. All of the maidens in the village are robed and taken to the temple where the rune dwells. The rune sits on an altar and the maidens surround it, holding hands and initiating the ritual. Every year the rune selects its host out of the maidens present and fixes itself to them. Lying on the altar, the power of the rune drains the host and kills them in the process. This ensures that the rune provides protection for the region for the coming year. The body of the girl is interned in the Holy Cave.

This year the rune selects Yaretzi. However, Montezuma thinks the ritual is barbaric and unnecessary and is heartbroken when it chooses Yaretzi, his childhood friend and possible love interest. He breaks into the temple during the ritual and as the rune begins to drain Yaretzi he grabs her and pulls her from the altar.

This causes the rune to go berserk and the tremendous power released starts to destroy the temple and actually splits the rune into two. Thus the Rune of Sacrifice becomes both the Worship Rune, which Yaretzi inherits and the Forfeit Rune, which Montezuma inherits.

The incident causes Yaretzi to fall into a coma-like state from which she can not be roused, but her body is preserved by the rune she now holds. Montezuma is branded a heretic, which means being condemned to death, and flees in the ensuing chaos, disappearing into the jungle.

The power of the worship rune combined with the realisation that they are now free from the curse of the Sacrifice Rune’s demands,
intoxicates the villagers and causes them to worship Yaretzi as an idol. They place her body in a glass coffin and inter her in a new temple dedicated to her worship known as the Eternal Citadel. They form a religion around her which begins to spread outside the village attracting more and more followers, possibly drawn by the power of the worship rune, and the village booms and prospers into a city. The Nagarea Theocracy is born out of this religion, with Yaretzi as its figurehead and deity.

Meanwhile, Montezuma is forced to constantly wander the country. His rune inherited the parasitic nature of the sacrifice rune and it will slowly begin to consume the life of those around him causing him to endlessly wander, forfeiting relationships, a home and a life.

A few hundred years later….

The whole of Nagarea and all of its clans and tribes have been unified through the teachings and laws of the theocracy. The pope claims that Yaretzi, who is still lifeless and sealed away in the secret depths of the Eternal Citadel, communicates her wishes to him which he in turn makes law. This is a lie and in reality the religion is using Yaretzi to preach its own bile and justify its aggressive regime, carrying out acts of violence and oppression in her name.

Somewhere in the Jungle, Montezuma is still alive due to the immortality granted by possessing a part of a true rune, and is finally captured by Nagarean Theocratic soldiers who identify him by his unique rune which has been described in the religious texts. As Arch-Heretic, Montezuma has been painted as a Demon-figure by the teachings of the Order.

He is brought to the Eternal Citadel where it is decided that it is time to reunite the runes and take control of the sacrifice rune which would provide them with the military advantage over Falena and allow them to expand their country and religion northwards.

The young friends are reunited after hundreds of years and scholars deep within the Eternal Citadel attempt to reunite the runes. However the plan backfires and the power released causes the ‘Great Earthquake’ (SY 376) mentioned in Suikoden V, which causes the passage between Nagarea and Falena to be sealed off. It also causes Yaretzi to finally wake and her and Montezuma escape the collapsing temple.

As they get deep within the jungle, Montezuma urges Yaretzi to leave him as his rune will slowly destroy her. However, they realise that when their respective runes are in the presence of each other their powers are cancelled out, meaning Montezuma is free to remain with people whilst Yaretzi no longer induces idolisation in people. This allows them to travel together through Nagarea. As few people have ever seen the face of the ‘goddess’ or the ‘demon’ they are relatively free to wander around anonymously.

Meanwhile, the church has issued a bounty for the capture of Montezuma for destroying the temple and attempting to steal the goddess (they do not reveal that the goddess has disappeared as this would cause panic and chaos and they would lose their grip over society).

As they travel, Yaretzi is horrified by what the church has turned the country and its citizens into and the atrocities carried out in her name and vows to destroy the Theocracy of Nagarea no matter what it takes….

Present day….. SY 451

The rebel faction is born and the 108 stars of destiny begin to drift together…

Returning characters:

Jeane - Staple returning character. Would be interesting to see her interact with Eresh further
Viki -Staple returning character. How else are you going to get around!?
Eresh – Being amongst the high-ranking clergy of the theocracy Eresh is a must. Would be great to explore her relationship with Jeane further
Oboro – Fled to Nagarea after the Sun Rune War to settle things regarding Nethergate. Also worth noting that 2 of the Nethergate leaders were rumoured to have fled to Nagarea
Nakula – Same motives as Oboro. Maybe they could team up?
Killey – Escaped from prison and on the hunt for more Sindar Ruins. Would be interesting to see him stand on his own rather than just act as a foil for Lorelai. Lorelai is busy heading North before fighting in the Gate Rune Wars.
Wilheim – Came to Nagarea because he heard of the war. And also to check out the Amazonian women!
Mueller - followed Wilhiem
Richard - followed Mueller
Alhazred – Came to Nagarea to examine the ancient religious texts regarding the Order.

Possible game explorations:

As the Sindar were constantly moving south due to the supposed effect of the Rune of Change it would interesting to see where they went – especially if there are no countries south of Nagarea (there might be).

The whole Nethergate side story for Oboro and Nakula would be interesting.

More enigmas involving Jeane and Eresh are a must!

Would also be interesting to see Nagarea’s relationship with Armes especially now they are at peace with Falena following the Sun Rune War.

As for the headquarters - It would be great to be able to recruit an Architect which would allow you to have a certain level of customisation as to how you build your base, with optional missions to recruit the necessary materials etc.

Anyway, that's my ideal Suikoden 6. I don't know why but I am quite obsessed with the Nagarea Theocracy since it was mentioned in Suikoden V - maybe I like the idea of dealing with a fanatical religious government!

It's important to note that the main 'hero' is the girl: Yaretzi. She is the one who wouldn't speak and Montezuma would be her mouthpiece in a similar capacity of Lyon in Suikoden 5.

Also I have worked out a major plot point/ending but didn't want to post incase it spoilt it....

Hope you enjoyed it!

Locke5
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Locke5 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:44 pm

Anything would be ok, it's a large world to make a good use of it, something in a western continent or so.

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Jocky
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Jocky » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:49 pm

Thats a cool idea Sewerpigeon. You look like you have put a lot of thought and effort into the storyline you have come up with! SV touched lightly on the nation of Nagarea and I agree that it would be a good setting for another game, possibly dealing with the last of the Netheragate who fled there. But in all honesty, I'm not worried where SVI is set, as long as its set on Planet Suiko, in the same timeline as the rest of the games. With the last 2 instalments, Tierkris and the unpronounceable 1, (Woven web of a halfwit or whatever its called) they strayed too far from the original design of the games, which I thought were excellent! But then again, with the Suiko team now no longer together, it seems like they have forgotten how to make a proper RPG........

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ItsDaveyJ
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby ItsDaveyJ » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:37 pm

At this point... my ideal Suikoden 6 is just one being made.

In all seriousness though...

Konami doesn't seem to have a ton of faith in the series and therefore doesn't want to spend the money on a big game. Why not make Suikoden 6 a handheld game and go back to the 2D style sprites (not those ugly blocks that were Tierkreis) to cut down on development costs? It doesn't have to be a game with a big budget. It just needs to play well, have a great story, and feel epic.

Of course that isn't my first choice though. I'd prefer to see a big blockbuster hit for PS4 with Murayama hired as a freelance writer to make sure the series is consistent. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of a lot of the gameplay changes in S3... I admire that it was trying to take the series in a new direction in terms of gameplay. S4 and S5 stopped developing the gameplay and went back to a more classic style to a limited degree of success IMO. So I'd like to see some risks taken like S3 to push the series into the modern gaming era. I'm not saying that it needs to lose its traditions and what makes the games feel like Suikoden, but the gameplay can't remain stagnant.

In terms of story... I'd like to see more of the 108 stars fleshed out. Obviously not every character can get their time in the spotlight but in all of the games some interesting characters get glossed over. I'd like to be able to get more involvement with more stars. I liked how S3 managed to make a large chunk of the cast important in their own way to the story. I just didn't like that chapters 4 and 5 went by REALLY fast. I would've enjoyed more time with my big army and being able to play Hugo, Chris, and Geddoe in one party. So what I am saying is, keep the length of establishing the army like S3 but let you have more time being in a big army. I always hated getting a cool character 2 battles before the game is over. Another request is to not make the main character so young. Sure that works well in Japan, but I think the global market likes their heroes/heroines to at least be 18.

I'd also like to see the series become less "anime." Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy anime from time to time... but Suikoden 1-3 never felt like they had glaringly obvious anime archetypes. In 4, 5, and Tierkreis you saw more characters become an anime archetype instead of a unique individual. Also, since Murayama left the games have become WAY less diverse. For example, Suikoden 4 and 5 had no darker-skinned people at all (at least that I can recall).

I'd also like fun things like being able to change clothes, new game +, side games like Chinchiron, etc.




Another suggestion of what I want to see is S1-5 released on PSN for the PS4. But what would realllllyyy be nice is if they added in new game + to them all and added in some end-game dungeons or some other types of challenges. Suikoden lets us level up to 99... let's make use of those levels!!

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Xelinis
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Xelinis » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:58 pm

ItsDaveyJ wrote:At this point... my ideal Suikoden 6 is just one being made.

In all seriousness though...

Konami doesn't seem to have a ton of faith in the series and therefore doesn't want to spend the money on a big game. Why not make Suikoden 6 a handheld game and go back to the 2D style sprites (not those ugly blocks that were Tierkreis) to cut down on development costs? It doesn't have to be a game with a big budget. It just needs to play well, have a great story, and feel epic.


Believe it or not, that type of 3D is cheaper and takes less time to do than 2D sprites.

Even though I'm not the biggest fan of a lot of the gameplay changes in S3... I admire that it was trying to take the series in a new direction in terms of gameplay. S4 and S5 stopped developing the gameplay and went back to a more classic style to a limited degree of success IMO. So I'd like to see some risks taken like S3 to push the series into the modern gaming era. I'm not saying that it needs to lose its traditions and what makes the games feel like Suikoden, but the gameplay can't remain stagnant.


I agree 100%, Suikoden III was a bold game that wasn't afraid to experiment. If anything, it's biggest fault is that the ideas were too ahead of their own time.

I'd also like to see the series become less "anime." Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy anime from time to time... but Suikoden 1-3 never felt like they had glaringly obvious anime archetypes. In 4, 5, and Tierkreis you saw more characters become an anime archetype instead of a unique individual. Also, since Murayama left the games have become WAY less diverse. For example, Suikoden 4 and 5 had no darker-skinned people at all (at least that I can recall).


Suikoden IV had its issues, but I thought that it tried staying true to the overall tone of the series despite the lack of Murayama being obvious. I just wish that Kawano and her team had more time and budget to polish things up. It wasn't until Suikoden V that the writing became juvenile.

Shasarazawoowoo
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Shasarazawoowoo » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:18 pm

Ideally, I'd prefer the series to explore more of the world, as much as possible (and learn about as many of the True Runes as possible), before finishing up in what seems to be an inevitable Harmonian conclusion. I want to see at least some of Nagarea, New Armes (or even the ancient dynasty, even if we know what happens to it later), Zelant, the unexplored continents, the so-called Katana, the actual Dukedom of Gaien... and, of course, Kanakan. Just to see exactly WHAT its deal is. It just seems to be famous for its alcohol. And it could set the stage, at the right time, for return appearances by Belcoot, Anita, and Valeria. I'd LOVE to see that, and Roundier Haia's fencing school.

I feel like the series should at least run until all 27 True Runes have been named and generally given purpose. Given that we've gotten quite a few over only a few games now (even if some of it has been supplementary stuff), it wouldn't take a TON of extra games, but enough to explore the world more. The lore and care given to the characters and locations is really fascinating stuff. I think I'd prefer seeing Nagarea or perhaps the Western Continent next (so we have SOMETHING to go on). And personally, the approach taken to V worked very well to me, so... more of that, with fleshed-out characters, story buildup, taking the things the series did right and refining them. Sure, maybe the battle system could use some overhaul, but I vastly prefer the I-II-V style to the half-controllable parties of III and the four-man bands of IV (it works fine for a Breath of Fire/Final Fantasy game, but with loads of playable characters out of 108, six seems like a much better idea).

I wouldn't mind them refining the spell system of III, though (but not the world map system, GOD no), with charging times and area-of-effect risking your party. ACTUALLY, they COULD take the Lunar approach with that... a degree of free-range movement. Lunar lets you position your characters on the battlefield to certain degrees. Location, your range, the enemy's range, a spell's range, they all play important roles, and it works well and is pretty damn fun. Made the battles require a bit more thought and tactical maneuvering. And hey, they may bring attention to both series by cribbing from Lunar.

I'd actually like to see the next game blend influences of Africa, the Mediterranean, and the Caribbean, though. Musically, visually... although a chillier climate would be nice to see for once. Most areas seem fairly warm.

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wataru14
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby wataru14 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:03 pm

Two words: Nameless Lands.

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ItsDaveyJ
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby ItsDaveyJ » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:23 pm

Xelinis wrote:Believe it or not, that type of 3D is cheaper and takes less time to do than 2D sprites.


Really? I stand corrected then. Regardless, I assume 2D is at least cheaper than modern day PS4/Xbox One era graphics. The thing that irked me post S3 was that... if you are going to have the game play like a 2D game then make it 2D. If you are going to have it be in 3D then incorporate elements that make it worthwhile to use 3D (S3 for example made you actually take time in battle to run up to enemies)

Suikoden IV had its issues, but I thought that it tried staying true to the overall tone of the series despite the lack of Murayama being obvious. I just wish that Kawano and her team had more time and budget to polish things up. It wasn't until Suikoden V that the writing became juvenile.


I don't think more time and budget would have solved the problem. They still had a lackluster story (even if it wasn't quite as anime as S5 and Tierkreis), the voice work was sub-par, and a whole other list of little things like... short shorts on Lazlo. Plus, the game taking place so far in the past really detached it from why many of us loved the first three games. Sure they had Viki, Jeane, and Ted but that was about it. Appearances like Rachel just felt like a stretch to me. 150 years and your gene-pool is exactly the same? And while it was true to the tone of the series... it was true to the old games and got rid of many of the good changes from S3 thus undoing all the progress of the series. Silent protagonists... again?

Suikoden 5's biggest issue beyond the anime cliches and stagnant gameplay and everything... was that it took soooooo long to get things going. Only a truly dedicated fan of the series would be willing to invest 4-5 hours to finally get the ball rolling. That's probably the main reason it didn't do well IMO.

Shasarazawoowoo
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Shasarazawoowoo » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:45 pm

I dunno what's wrong with him wearing short shorts. It's not something that bugged me, certainly didn't take me outta the game. Then again, I kind of find it hot, so maybe it's just that. (Hey, no worse than what some of the Suikoden women wear.)

wataru14 wrote:Two words: Nameless Lands.


Aren't the Nameless Lands north of Zexen/Grasslands/etc? I need to check... I wanna go east or west for once instead of north/south, although - again - if we saw Gaien, Nagarea, New Armes, or Kanakan, I wouldn't say no...

Then again, they have to be suitably big. Falena, Dunan, Toran, all pretty big places. SIII felt smaller than it was, and IV WAS just plain small...

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ItsDaveyJ
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby ItsDaveyJ » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:48 pm

Shasarazawoowoo wrote:I dunno what's wrong with him wearing short shorts. It's not something that bugged me, certainly didn't take me outta the game. Then again, I kind of find it hot, so maybe it's just that. (Hey, no worse than what some of the Suikoden women wear.)


If you want hot and attractive clothes for the men... my favorite has to be Hugo's from S3. Dem patterns :3

I don't mind men wearing revealing outfits like the women do... I just want the outfit itself to look good! xD

Shasarazawoowoo
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Shasarazawoowoo » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:34 pm

ItsDaveyJ wrote:
Shasarazawoowoo wrote:I dunno what's wrong with him wearing short shorts. It's not something that bugged me, certainly didn't take me outta the game. Then again, I kind of find it hot, so maybe it's just that. (Hey, no worse than what some of the Suikoden women wear.)


If you want hot and attractive clothes for the men... my favorite has to be Hugo's from S3. Dem patterns :3

I don't mind men wearing revealing outfits like the women do... I just want the outfit itself to look good! xD


I didn't think Lazlo's was that bad. At worst, it's kind of impractical, but pretty much any hero except Chris (and maybe Geddoe) is dressed impractically for combat. I like the colors and design, though. I think it'd look better if SuikoIV weren't so overall drab and brown. Hugo's is pretty cool with all the colors of the wind and shoot, although the Hammer pants do kinda interfere with my "dat ass" policy, but he looks good anyway, so.

I'd say Jowy's original outfit (blue sleeveless shirt, clingy white pants) fits my perverted criteria just fine, and looks snazzy too. If our next Tenkai Star is yet another male, hopefully he takes a leaf from Original Jowy's book, or Lazlo's. Or Milich's (his regular outfit or some of the crap in his wardrobe), because that would just be hilarious.

(As opposed to Nalleo's, which would just be creepy.)

ETA: Actually, if the next Tenkai Star - guy or girl - dressed something like Hortez, that'd just be peachy for me, too. It'd likely be in a game taking place in Armes or somewhere with similar style, but aside from the sexy part, I find the style really cool. Ornate, elegant, makes me wonder what kind of culture he comes from and if we could see Hortez VII (or any relations) return in such a game. (He was amusing.)

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Jocky
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Jocky » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:51 pm

The outfits have gotta be smart, no doubt about it!! With the lack of a change of outfit like in some games like Dragon quest and such then they have to look COOL, coz you'll be staring at his ass a lot as he runs from town to town!! Lazlo was to dark in that respect.
Would being able to change people's outfits be a good thing in SVI, what do you think? It can do 1 of 2 things, either bring diversity to the characters so they feel fresh all the time you use them but, does it also subtract from how much you [i]care[/c] for them, like we did with Riou and Jowy?

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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Shasarazawoowoo » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:07 am

It could be fun as an optional thing. People might complain about a Barbie/dress-up aspect (and God forbid they introduce this aspect in the first game to have a female Tenkai - something I do hope to eventually see happen), but I think having little fun stuff to do like that, as long as it's not overwhelming and distracting, isn't a terrible addition. As long as they fit the area, the culture, the hero's personality - I mean, Frey had, what, three outfits throughout V? (not to mention others like Kyle, Sialeeds, Lyon, and Georg). Lazlo had, I think, two. You even briefly see Riou wearing Highland digs, though no portrait appears for it.

I wouldn't be broken up if it didn't ever happen, but I'd certainly welcome the concept if executed well. Just no further customizing of appearance beyond that, though, and so long as the Tenkai does have ONE iconic, primary outfit like the others, something to associate them with. I liked when Harvest Moon implemented customization, but I feel like Suikoden would fare better with a protagonist who has a distinct visual identity to some degree.

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ItsDaveyJ
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby ItsDaveyJ » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:29 pm

I think part of the problem with Lazlo's design is that if you look at Tir's, Riou's, Hugo's, Chris', Geddoe's, and Freyjadour's outfits they immediately pop out and have their own unique look among all video game characters. Lazlo's design looks a bit generic. Thomas' is a bit generic too but I think he was supposed to look that way.

And yeah Hugo has those hammer pants but I think he pulls them off. Jowy's design... is interesting. I sort of like it some days but then other days I just really hate the white pants. That's my only issue with it though. But yes, I would love to see a game set wherever Hortez and Raura are from. They also have very distinct and attractive designs. Although it seems like it might cause some discomfort since that area seems to allow men to have multiple wives. But hey, S5 already made a grown man engaged to a little girl. Which was totally uncomfortable BTW.

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Jocky
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Re: My Ideal Suikoden 6

Postby Jocky » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:35 pm

I was thinking along the same lines as you Shas, but I thought perhaps it would be cool to have maybe 3 distinct outfits that evoked different responses from people depending on which 1 you wore. Such as, having your main kick ass getup like Frey had, which everyone knows is the outfit of the leader of the rebellion and those backing your revolt treat you well, and give you potch and items 2 aid in your quest, but you get chased by the opposition whenever you go near them. And possibly another 'casual' outfit complete with brown hooded cloak for when you want to go unnoticed by either side of the war which earns you rather bland responses from all. And lastly, like Riou and Jowy's spying trip 2 highland, possibly a plain uniform of the opposing army so that you can get into certain towns that have become occupied, which gives you jovial responses from the enemy soldiers about town but disdain from the townsfolk.
Getting each outfit would require the completion of some mission or dungeon type area. But after getting each outfit you could use it whenever you wanted to from then on and maybe you could only recruit certain people while wearing a certain outfit. I thought this would be a kinda cool idea!
Raura and Hortez have definitely got a kinda Egyptian theme going on, no?! Which would be cool to explore more, but yes DaveyJ, no more paedo weddings for us, eh!! :P


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