badder guys

Ralphy Leone Tensei · Post by **Ralphy Leone Tensei** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:22 pm

Hm.

Why can't Konami make villains that are cruel yet charismatic (a Hitler-like character) or maybe like the ones from Final Fantasy?

Iku · Post by **Iku** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:12 pm

the ff villians are usually the same, and never really had any rason to want to destroy the world, they were evil for the hell of it, kuja really was crap, was what his reasoning behind his crazy idea to destroy the world, so what if your not your daddy's favourite!

but a hitler like figure would be fun, id love to see what motivates him/her to do such evil actions!

VinceValentine · Post by **VinceValentine** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:49 pm

Hm... the closest bad guy in Suikoden that reminds me of hitler is Marscal Godwin actually.

Ralphy Leone Tensei · Post by **Ralphy Leone Tensei** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:30 pm

Marscal Godwin was most likely a generic villain.

Rune of Illusion · Post by **Rune of Illusion** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:17 am

Rezard wrote:You guys always have an explanation to almost everything.
Yes, Rune of Illusion, your explanation makes sense, but it wouldn't hurt for Lucretia explain those hided intents. From Lyon and the other characters saying: "yes, we mustn't hurt those poor enemy soldiers.", it is hinted the opposite, that they are showing mercy to an enemy.

Makes me wonder if konami really thought of that when they made the game. It always seemed to me that simply destroying fort hatred with the dawn rune was too easy and boring, so they decided to create a unnecessary army battle to heat things up.

Well, but the game is already made, so I believe we should pick the version that makes more sense and not the one that seems absurd.

exactly, this is what they called making a story and not a sorry one at that.If Freyjadour went around owning and pwning that would not make for good story it was be too simple and you would be even more dissatisfied with that.

Marscal simply wanted to turn Falena into a world wide power. People associated him with Hitler because of his nationalistic ideas and his attempted genocide of the Beavers.

tmxdragoon · Post by **tmxdragoon** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:25 pm

Having another similar to Luca would be alright but that guy in suiko V was horrid, he was trying too hard to be like luca and failed. But some villians like luc were good too.

Luca was funny though, I remember that scene in suiko 2 were, I think his name was Son Jhee or something, failed in the battle and luca says something along the lines of "You failed me, take him behind the tent and chop off his pathetic head", that was great.

VinceValentine · Post by **VinceValentine** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:43 pm

Just like with Hitler and the Jewish, Marscal with the Beavers, and also he tried eradicating the Dwarf people with Nether Gate.

And yeah Childerich didn't really strike me as crazy as Luca, and the only real time he was really crazy was when he took the Raging Rostrum during the duel with him at the Arena in Stormfist... so yeah he was kinda mediocre crazy compared to Luca and Luca, in my opinion is the best Suikoden villian so far...note i say "so far".

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:52 pm

I would love to be able to play with 2 main characters at same time (no TSS). Go through the game with those 2 and at plot fix you need to chose which of the 2 you'de like to continue playing with. You could end up playing as the villianous of the 2 and still be able to see the game through. As in the villian main character wins the final show-down.

Suikoden was always about the good guys point of view, but each "bad guy" of the series had a very good reason to go to war too. By making different choises that has a crusial impact on which way the story is gonna turn out, it would definitely spice things up.

Leebot · Post by **Leebot** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:23 am

Raijin wrote:Suikoden was always about the good guys point of view, but each "bad guy" of the series had a very good reason to go to war too.

I'll give you Jowy, Luc, and Cray, and Barbarossa with a bit of a stretch, but no way does that apply to the Godwins.

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:46 am

Why not? He's no different than Queen Arshtat, they just wanted different things for Falena. It's up to you to say if he's right or wrong. But in Godwin's eyes the Prince is the enemy who stood in his way.

Leebot · Post by **Leebot** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:22 pm

Of course almost everyone is going to think that they're doing the right thing. The problem is getting the players to sympathize with them. With Jowy/Luc/Cray, it wouldn't be too hard at all (hell, they already let you play as Luc if you get all 108 stars in 3). Barbarossa's a bit trickier, as he's just enamored by Windy, but you could possibly get people to sympathize with his yearning for his lost wife.

And then there are the Godwins. Yes, they want what they think is best for Falena. The problem is stretching that to accept that genocide is what's best. It's a xenophobic attitude that most people today (in our society at the least) just can't accept. In the end, it just seems like an impossible hurdle to clear in order to get people to sympathize with them.

Rune of Illusion · Post by **Rune of Illusion** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:50 pm

Leebot wrote:
Raijin wrote:Suikoden was always about the good guys point of view, but each "bad guy" of the series had a very good reason to go to war too.
I'll give you Jowy, Luc, and Cray, and Barbarossa with a bit of a stretch, but no way does that apply to the Godwins.

I wouldn't give credit to Luc. His reason behind his actions in Suikoden 3 was because he recieved a prediction from the True Wind Rune that his life was going to be basically boring, so he figured he could avoid this by destroying the True Wind Rune. He creates a long drawn out and not boring plan to do this also he participated in two wars and destroyed a whole batillion with this rune, so no he reasoning behinds his actions in Suikoden III were crap in III in my opinion, but I could be wrong.

Leebot · Post by **Leebot** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:11 pm

Not just his life would be boring, it essentially predicted the end of the world by "Dharma" winning out. To counteract this, his plan was to instill a large amount of chaos into the world to counterbalance it and hopefully allow the world to last longer. At least, that's how I saw it.

Rezard · Post by **Rezard** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:39 pm

Luc is the nicest Suikoden vilain, he wanted to protect the world, followed by Jowy. All the other are evil, even if they have pretty reasons.

For example, Barbarossa has a pretty reason, he loves Windy, but it's evil to let her cause corruption and destruction in your empire, when it is your duty to protect it. You cannot do something beneficial to you that causes destruction in the world, that's evil.

I think Suikoden villains are simply better developed, compared to other games.

Rune of Illusion · Post by **Rune of Illusion** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:16 am

Rezard wrote: I think Suikoden villains are simply better developed, compared to other games.

I agree completely. Suikoden villans tend to have more to them than "Arrh! I want to destroy everything and everyone just because!"