Future speculation about Tir MCDohl and other char

[WaterMoon]

That makes no sense. Why would the halves of the gate rune be two half cups of coffee, whereas the Black Sword and Bright Shield runes are hot water and coffee beans? How are the halves of one true rune any different than the halves of another when it comes to where they are in the heirarchy of runes? Why should the halves of the Gate Rune grant agelessness but not the halves of the Rune of Beginning? They're equal components in the making of a true rune. I could see if, instead of the 5 elemental true runes, those 5 were pieces of a true rune of elements, and they didn't grant agelessness, as the power of the true rune would be diluted among 5 pieces rather than 2, but when comparing halves of one to halves of another, in that sense, they should be the same.

[Rezard]

The Bright Shield and Black Sword Runes are just components to make the Rune of Beginning. The Front/Back Gate runes are the Gate Rune split in two. So, going with the "Coffee" theory here, a true rune a like a cup of coffee. By spitting the Gate Rune in two, there are now two half-cups of coffee. The Bright Shield and Black Sword runes would just be hot water and coffee beans, with the Rune of Beginning being the cup of coffee.

Well, it’s an almost perfect explanation.
I see only one problem. The gate rune is called Front and Back, different names, this indicates it is also water and coffee beans. It is accepted by some that Leeknaat has the power to unsummon, while Windy summons monsters.

Their runes seem to have different powers, which would make them more similar to the black sword and bright shield rune.

Also we don't know why this rune was split differently, what happened?

Some speculate that it was divided with magic, but we don't know how it was done. If Luc needed 4 True runes to destroy his Wind Rune, I think it would be necessary at least one True rune to split the Gate rune against its will.

[Falqueene]

That makes no sense. Why would the halves of the gate rune be two half cups of coffee, whereas the Black Sword and Bright Shield runes are hot water and coffee beans? How are the halves of one true rune any different than the halves of another when it comes to where they are in the heirarchy of runes? Why should the halves of the Gate Rune grant agelessness but not the halves of the Rune of Beginning? They're equal components in the making of a true rune. I could see if, instead of the 5 elemental true runes, those 5 were pieces of a true rune of elements, and they didn't grant agelessness, as the power of the true rune would be diluted among 5 pieces rather than 2, but when comparing halves of one to halves of another, in that sense, they should be the same.

The Bright Shield and Black Sword runes aren't halves of the the Rune of Beginning, they're components. I've always heard it widely accepted that this is the case.

I see only one problem. The gate rune is called Front and Back, different names, this indicates it is also water and coffee beans. It is accepted by some that Leeknaat has the power to unsummon, while Windy summons monsters.

What else were they supposed to call them; "Gate Rune pieces #1 & 2"?
I see where you're coming from with the "summon and unsummon" aspect though. Who knows, maybe both are gate rune powers ((held by both halves)), but they choose to use their powers in different ways. I guess all the game really says about it is that they split the Gate Rune and fled, so I can see how a different spin can be taken on it. However, that would have to be backed up with more speculation on how Leknaat maintains her agelessness.

Also, before Luc leaves the Wizard's Tower in Suikoden 3, he does say something about her not being able to stop him with her imperfect rune. This to me suggests that she has half of a true rune, not a component of a true rune.

[kharaa]

The Bright Shield and Black Sword runes aren't halves of the the Rune of Beginning, they're components. I've always heard it widely accepted that this is the case.

... But it's not Canon right? just wide speculation from fans?

Now correct me if i'm wrong, but i gathered that the rune of beginning split in to two halves, the sword and the shield; the sword and the shield fight, and shatter creating the 27 true runes.. am I getting it so far?

I still am not sure how come it's easier to assume they wouldn't grant immortality?

..and i am still waiting for a link this interview..

[Rune of Illusion]

No. The legend goes at first there was nothing then the darkness shed a tear and from that the Sword and Shield was born. They fought and broke each other and from those shards were born every true rune including the Rune of Beginning. It is impossible for the Rune of Beginning to be the Sword and Shield. So in order to symbolize the Beginning the Rune turns itself into the Bright Shield and Black Sword runes. Once these two runes are fight against each other and the defeated bearer gives up his/her rune then will the Rune of Beginning manifest itself in its true form. In this way it can represent and symbolize the actual beginning, but the rune itself did not become the actual Sword and Shield.

Konami confirms that these two runes do not grant agelessness and just some add info no true rune grants immortality.

[Falqueene]

The Bright Shield and Black Sword runes aren't halves of the the Rune of Beginning, they're components. I've always heard it widely accepted that this is the case.

... But it's not Canon right? just wide speculation from fans?

I was under the impression that it was either stated in the game, or officially said by Konami. I haven't played Suikoden 2, so can anyone who has give confirmation either way?

Konami confirms that these two runes do not grant agelessness and just some add info no true rune grants immortality.

So it has been confirmed by Konami then, meaning that the Bright Sword and Black Shield runes are not halves of a true rune.

[Rezard]

What else were they supposed to call them; "Gate Rune pieces #1 & 2"?
I see where you're coming from with the "summon and unsummon" aspect though. Who knows, maybe both are gate rune powers ((held by both halves)), but they choose to use their powers in different ways. I guess all the game really says about it is that they split the Gate Rune and fled, so I can see how a different spin can be taken on it. However, that would have to be backed up with more speculation on how Leknaat maintains her agelessness.

Also, before Luc leaves the Wizard's Tower in Suikoden 3, he does say something about her not being able to stop him with her imperfect rune. This to me suggests that she has half of a true rune, not a component of a true rune.

Well, they could have the same name or "first and second half". As they named it, it seems to be two different runes.

Splitting a true rune is no simple task. Who could have enough power to split a True rune? And why? Leeknaat or Windy would have higher chances to survive if only one of them had a full rune.

I think "imperfect" Luc mentions, might mean the power of the rune is suppressed by natural means, like Rune of Punishment, before it goes on forgiving phase. Or like the other runes, when you do not collect all 108 stars.
If that would not be the case, I don't know why Windy went after the soul eater (hoping it would accept her) and not after Leeknaat's "half".

... But it's not Canon right? just wide speculation from fans?

It is canon that Windy/Leeknaat are ageless and Jowy Riou aren't.
Now, if Front/Back are components, halves or anything else, that's just speculation. Although I think they refer to it as "half" during the game, but that doesn't mean they thought of all speculation behind this.

[kharaa]

I would like to see this proof from konami honestly, i keep asking, but no one can seem to get the link. =/

[fhisto]

Ya I Think Tir McDohl and the other character must come back.

[Hachifusa]

Im confused, So The Bright Shield and Black Sword (Rune of Beginning) arent ageless but The Front and Back rune (Gate Rune) are ageless. So the Gate Rune r more powerful than The Rune of the Beginning? That makes no sense, haha, well well. :/

[son_michael]

Im confused, So The Bright Shield and Black Sword (Rune of Beginning) arent ageless but The Front and Back rune (Gate Rune) are ageless. So the Gate Rune are more powerful than The Rune of the Beginning? That makes no sense, haha, well well. :/

I think because the gate rune was split by a sindarian technique...that must be the reason why the halves are able to individually grant aglessness.The rune of beggining {as far as I know} was not split by any sindarian technique...so thats why bright shield and black sword arent ageless.


Remember that the gate rune was split forcibly and its not meant to split whereas the rune of beggining IS meant to become 2 pieces...

so bassically im thinking...



Rune of beggining= meant to split into 2 seperate runes therefore losing its aglessness/having a different Identity..an alter ego of sorts



Gate rune= never meant to split and since it was never meant to split it still is the same rune! its just cut in half! thats why both halves grant aglessness...because its still the same true rune as it was before being cut in half...in contrast the rune of beggining became 2 completley new runes

[Occam Arkitect]

I thought this gaterune-ROB thing ended years ago...sigh.

Gate Rune - Front and Back

The Gate rune is a true rune. The Front gate rune functions like the original gate rune, but it's just the half, miniature, weaker version, just like the back gate rune.

Like Gotenks in DBZ anime, Goten is a human, Trunks is a human (ok they're half saiyan-humans), both function normally, and if they fuse together they are gotenks, just like their original selves, only more powerful.

ROB - completely different.

Let's say ROB is a person. The Bright shield is the upper torso, and the Black Shield is the lower torso. Without them being united, nothing will exist on its own, because they are meant to be together, so they won't function like what ROB should.

[Kranach]

i'm so lazy to read the whole thread... so i don't know if anyone said t his before... the heroes are tenkai stars!!! there is only one dominant tenkai star in the moment... riou and tir crossed each others path but tir wasn't considered as a tenkai star anymore... seeing the old tenkai stars will be nice... but they will have small roles... so i guess the true runes that the tenkai stars have will be passed to a new none tenkai bearer... rune punishment none tenkai i wonder how he will survive the curse...

[Iku]

the rune of beginning always exists in two parts and as these two parts they are not true runes, they do not have true rune status! its only when they "join"/ "combine" that they get their status as true runes, and they you have immortality and all things that come with true runedom! but the gate rune was artificially split so each part is part of a true rune!!

[Sniper_Zegai]

I dont see why people have a problem with Tir. Does'nt anyone find it sad that Tir is the ONLY returning hero and the rest of them fade away into nothing. The Tir scene in S2 was very nice and the truth is not everybody got to play it anyway. Ted was a nice edition in S4 but it wasnt anything spectacular. I dont think we should have returning heroes in every Suikoden I just think its a shame they never show up. Unless in S6 there is an "Island of previous heroes" sounds scary.