Konami's aim with the Suikoden series

Falenan_descent · Post by **Falenan_descent** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:43 pm

You know, I've been seriously thinking about what Konami's goal is with Suikoden. All we seem to get is different games featured in a new place, new rune, new hero, new story, and a little info about returning characters (Viki/Jeane). But, it seems to me...and correct me if I'm wrong...but Konami always has the same rough story outline:

Good guy has true rune or part of a true rune.
Bad guy has or wants a true rune and wants to destroy the world or re-shape the world in his/her own way.

Some examples:

Good guys:

Tir with Soul Eater
Riou with Bright Shield
Hugo, Gheddoe, Chris, Sasarai with their elemental runes
Lazlo with Rune of Punishment
Freyadour and Lyon with Dawn/Twilight and the Sun rune.

Bad guys:

Windy using the Gate Rune to take over the world.
Luca Blight with the Beast rune attempting to cleanse the world.
Jowy using the Black Sword rune to re-shape the war in his own eyes.
Luc using the elemental runes to destroy his Wind rune to destroy the world.
Graham Cray utilizing the Rune of Punishment for whatever reason.
Marscal Godwin using the Sun Rune in his "Falena for Falenans" conquest.

Now, noticing that all the bad guys seem to have their own motives but are working towards the same goal...and every suikoden roughly features the same plotline...

I believe Konami is working us towards a future Suikoden where not just one True Rune is at stake...but all of them. And all of the nations will have to band together towards a force that isn't directly of their world. And us, the players, will have all the resources needed in the previous suikoden installments to finish up the wars for good. Example: Windy and her Gate rune.

My honest opinion is that Konami is pointing towards Windy returning using her Gate rune to summon beasts from the Pale Gate to do her bidding. My only real proof is that Leknaat is a returning character and what a great way to tie up Leknaat's true goal in a final suikoden by having to deal with her sister. Leknaat IS a seer and it wouldn't surprise me if she has seen the end of the world. Windy is the only possible returning villain that is NOT dead that could come back to a degree where she is threatening again.

So what do you guys think? Do you guy think that Konami's aim is roughly what I'm describing or is my theory too far fetched? I'd love to hear some debate! Talk to me!

Note: Bringing Windy in for a final Suikoden isn't all that far-fetched and neither would bringing back returning True runes. Not necessarily with their current bearers (IE: Tir with Soul Eater) but in a way that connects all of the Suikodens together.

2nd Note: If this has been discussed somewhere please point it out. I did a search but I couldn't quite narrow it down with a search engine. So, if it was, point it out and I'll post this there ^^ Thanks.

Iris · Post by **Iris** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:12 pm

Graham Cray's goal was to reobtain the Rune of Punishment so he could have the memories his son had while bearing the Rune. Essentially, he wanted his little boy back.

That said, I agree to a point. However, it is my personal opinion that Harmonia is collecting all of the True Runes for some nefarious purpose. What purpose? Good question. A friend of mine brought up the possibility that once all the True Runes are gathered together they may re-form Sword and Shield, effectivly pressing the world's Reset button and setting the stage for one last epic battle which would perhaps bring about the vision of the future seen in the True Wind Rune.

It's not completely far-fetched.

shitow · Post by **shitow** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:37 am

Mmmmmmh , I think it's not time yet to announce a "final" suikoden , there are too many lands unexplored and it would annoy me to see that the serie would end without having cleared those lands...

But your theory about windy is quite possible , and I wouldn't mind a gigantic ending battle among battles in harmonia !!!! Yeaaaaah ya know with a really old naaaaash and then we could discover who is his wiiiiiife and then !! a beautiful young lady (called shitow , pure hazard eh!!!) would kill his wife and marry hiiiiiiiiim because he's soooooooooo sex !!!!!!!!!!

ooOOops... hee hee sorry ^_^; but when thinking of harmonia I can't help but thinking of nash ^^

(raaah who is his wife?!)

The Prophet · Post by **The Prophet** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:50 am

Konami's aim is to depict certain themes present in our world through aspects of the game. For instance, the civil unrest depicted in Suikoden V could mirror the current state of the world at present within three major regions in the globe. I would speculate that Konami will try to talk about terrorism and religious aspects in the next installment.

Rezard · Post by **Rezard** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:54 am

I think we should differ two konamiÂ´s tendencies:

1) Suikoden I to III - Murayama original intent, we can try to uncover what it was.

2) Suikoden IV and V - what konami has been doing, which it seems to be nothing, but prolonging the series. Just see how they began to avoid introducing many True Runes(they even gave a main character a rune which wasnÂ´t part of a true rune) or telling much of the main secrets.
Please undestand that I don't find this bad, as long it doesn't drag on too much.

About Murayama original intent, I have my own theory about that:

The Suikoden series always reminded me of an anime/manga series called X/1999, if you happen to know this, you will find that some characters are very similar, as for example:

In X, we have twin females sisters, one is nice and the other is evil. The nice one is blind, can see the future and have a wind user as her assistant, who by the way is annoying. The evil one isnâ€™t blind, canâ€™t see the future and attempts to fight against her sister.

Doesn't this sound familiar?

We also have three main characters, two boys and a girl, who are childhood friends. Because of their fate, the two boys will fight against each other regardless of their will, the nicer boy will try to not to fight and the girl will die.(Fumma//Kamui is similar to Jowy /Riou)

So... I think Murayama was a fan of X/1999 and he let this influence him.

In X, there is a terrible future that cannot be avoided (same as Dharma vs Chaos) and all the main characters divide in two groups to fight each other to decide which future will prevail, except one character, who was born on a gemini star and nobody knows what side he will take.

So I think there will be war and we will have 13 True rune bearers (on a Dharma side, probably defending the reign of Harmonia forever) and 13 True rune bearers (on the Chaos side) fighting each other.

The last true rune bearer will bee free to take whatever side he wants, and nobody will be able to foretell which side he will take. This guy will probably be the hero of the last game.

WaterMoon · Post by **WaterMoon** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:50 pm

Rezard wrote:In X, there is a terrible future that cannot be avoided (same as Dharma vs Chaos) and all the main characters divide in two groups to fight each other to decide which future will prevail, except one character, who was born on a gemini star and nobody knows what side he will take.

So I think there will be war and we will have 13 True rune bearers (on a Dharma side, probably defending the reign of Harmonia forever) and 13 True rune bearers (on the Chaos side) fighting each other.

The last true rune bearer will bee free to take whatever side he wants, and nobody will be able to foretell which side he will take. This guy will probably be the hero of the last game.

And when presented with the choice of saving the world and bringing about order at the cost of the lives of humanity (Dharma) or of saving humanity, kobolds, elves, dwarves, beavers, nekobolds, etc at the cost of a horrible war and much destruction (Chaos) he picks Chaos and his twin brother/old friend finds himself forced by fate to the Order side and the final battle in the game is a duel between the two, one you can't defend your way out of like ya could with Riou/Jowy

Siel Avadon · Post by **Siel Avadon** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:04 pm

Bet many of those "returning" chars is like..."supervising" things to see they are going accuratly...If some maniac destroys the world before erh harmonias grand plan its not good...So really...

in my view, Viki and those are there to secretly support erh rogue nations to crush "evil" forces which Ironically is just in the way for the real big bang evil ... doom bringers.

There isnt 2 boys and 1 girl in 4 our 5? but then..of course those are not same as 1-3 but in Suikoden 1, whom is the...girl? Cleo?

Anyway, The last Suikoden must be really epical or just ending like when t he world is destroyed, the true runes is in the "choosen rune wearers hands" or they are...well done their purpose and dies or something.

Falenan_descent · Post by **Falenan_descent** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:29 pm

I wonder if something happens when the 27 True Runes are gathered together and Hikusaak/Windy/Leknaat know the answer. I have a feeling that Leknaat is helping true rune bearers to learn how to use their runes, keep their runes safe, and establish a peaceful setting in their home nations to avoid the runes being collected by evil forces. I -HATE- to use this reference since I think the show sucks but take Dragonball for example. When the 7 balls are gathered together...you get a magical dragon wish

But, what if in the Suikoden World...you bring all the 27 runes together and you:

1) Can control the world as if you were a god.
2) Can ascend to heaven (Quite a possability due to the heavy conflicts involving Dharma and Chaos)
3) Destroy the World (Quite possible too)

Falqueene · Post by **Falqueene** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:11 pm

Rezard wrote: So I think there will be war and we will have 13 True rune bearers (on a Dharma side, probably defending the reign of Harmonia forever) and 13 True rune bearers (on the Chaos side) fighting each other.

The last true rune bearer will bee free to take whatever side he wants, and nobody will be able to foretell which side he will take. This guy will probably be the hero of the last game.

X is an excelent anime ^^ I didn't realize the similarities to Suikoden until you metioned them, very cool ^0^

As for the whole end-of-the-world concept, I think it's the only fitting way to end the serise. Basically, true runes have been indroduced in each game, keeping the serise going. Once they run out of true runes, then what? A big/epic final battle would be the best way to end it all, plus konami could squeeze in alot of characters to achieve the whole "desperate war for the fate of the world" thing, so a lot of favourite characters could make re-appearances ((which would make a lot of people happy)), even if they're not SoDs.

kharaa · Post by **kharaa** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:14 pm

I don't think they'll end the series with destroying the potential for more games, the suikoden franchise is one of the more popular ones, i doubt they'll end it when money can still be made off of it.

Falqueene · Post by **Falqueene** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:21 pm

kharaa wrote:I don't think they'll end the series with destroying the potential for more games, the suikoden franchise is one of the more popular ones, i doubt they'll end it when money can still be made off of it.

Maybe they'll destroy the world, then create it again, in a whole "big-bang" concept

You do see what I'm saying though, right? Every game there's been a new true rune, along with new conficts, new spells etc. It's one of the things that keeps the serise interesting to long-time players. What happens when they run out of true runes? Not everything can go one forever, and Konami has plenty of other successful games; Harvest Moon and Silent Hill to name a few, they don't need to lean on the Suikden serise to buy their bread. Suikoden's barely known compared to those two.

kharaa · Post by **kharaa** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:14 am

To be perfectly honest, say they do 2 runes a game, which they have almsot done anyways..

it'll take around 12 or so games to get them all, it's taken Square-Enix uh.. 20 years nearly?

there is plenty of games people do and just leave it at that, say they decide to take a break from suikoden for a few years, they just leave it alone, rather then destroying or whatever their world, so that nothing more can ever come from it again.

That being said, i do understand where you're coming from.

for some reason i doubt we'll get up to a suikoden 12.. they don't do nearly as well as final fantasy or other RPG's..

Siel Avadon · Post by **Siel Avadon** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:55 am

But isnt the planet itself....the 27 runes? Without the runes, the planet cannot exsist? Get what I mean?

So destroy the true fire run or water and you shall not have any more fire or water beingf created.

Falqueene · Post by **Falqueene** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:03 pm

Siel Avadon wrote:But isnt the planet itself....the 27 runes? Without the runes, the planet cannot exsist? Get what I mean?

So destroy the true fire run or water and you shall not have any more fire or water beingf created.

Right, the destruction of the world as we know it. Kind of like what Iris was saying about "the possibility that once all the True Runes are gathered together they may re-form Sword and Shield, effectivly pressing the world's Reset button and setting the stage for one last epic battle which would perhaps bring about the vision of the future seen in the True Wind Rune."
So basically, we'd go back to the lonely darkness shedding a tear, and everything would begin again ((hey! Then there's an excuse to make more games

))

EternalOnslaught · Post by **EternalOnslaught** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:13 am

So the popular theory here is that Harmonia is trying to capture all 27 true runes to, perhaps "reset the world"? And re-create the sword and shield? One question, what would Hikusaak or the Harmonian aristocrats/high priests gain from such a thing? It would pretty much mean everyones demise, even Hikusaak if he/she hasn't already kicked the bucket.