Female Tenkai

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Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
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killerslime
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby killerslime » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:09 am

The Beast Rune could work if you set the story after Suikoden 2. It has to go somewhere after leaving L'Renouille. It represents animalistic rage and passion. The protagonist could find the rune but be completely overwhelmed by its power, prone to fits of uncontrollable rage maybe even killing some of her own men. Throughout the course of the story she learns how to master the rune and enters its 'Passion Phase'.

The only True Rune that hasn't been announced but most probably exists is 'The Time Rune' or 'The Rune of Time and Space'. Which powers would possibly be teleportation, dimension hopping and time travel. Viki rune could possibly be a child of this rune. This rune would perhaps be better suited as the antagonist's rune as its powers are kind of ridiculous or it would be extremely hard to control sending its bearer to randomly selected time periods and alternate dimensions. Or it could come in two halves a space rune and a time rune with the protagonist having one half while the antagonist has the other. Shame that both these elements have been explored in the handheld Suikoden wannabes. Tierkries covers dimension hopping while Tsumugareshi Hyakunen no Toki covers time travel.

Featuring the True Wind Rune wouldn't mean having to include the other elemental runes. Luc's in both the first two Suikodens and none of the other four runes appear in those games. Leknaat could have sent Luc to view other wars as her eyes that we don't know about before he rebels. Also it would seem kind of forced including any of the past heroes of 3 besides maybe Geddoe as we know that he travelled the world between the years 425 and 465.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:35 am

But it doesn't mean Luc has to bear it after Suikoden III either.

Wow, I like your idea of the Beast Rune being a hero TR. The Tenkai going berserk with it reminded me of Ferid and Arshtat in V.

So probably her husband or boyfriend could calm her rages until such time all the 108 SoDs could be obtained.
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby killerslime » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:38 am

I meant if you set the story before Suikoden 3 that you could include him. Luc couldn't appear after 3 unless he and Sara survived somehow which i doubt. But you still wouldn't have to have the other elemental runes involved if you just made up another tablet guardian that happens to obtain the Wind Rune. But yeah if the Wind Rune was the Tenkai's rune you would maybe have to include the other four which begs the question as to wether the Earth and Wind Runes appeared in 'The First Firebringer War' or not?

You could always set the story before Luc and Sasarai were born and perhaps have the True Earth/Wind Rune on an original Antagonist that would die or be captured by Harmonia in time for them to be used in the two clone's creation.

The Beast Rune would fit your preference of an offensive rune for your Tenkai and could lead to some interesting plot lines. We haven't really seen too much of how the true runes effect love relationships. Ashtat/Ferid and Sana/Flamechampion gave us a preview but it could be explored deeper and in different ways.

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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby ninjaluc79 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:56 am

Hmm... I also like the idea of bearers of the True Earth and True Wind Runes before Sasarai and Luc. But that means it would be set before Suikoden I. But IV and V are already set before I, and there are two other pre-Suikoden I events some people wanted to see: the Succession Wars of the Scarlet Moon Empire and the First Fire Bringer War.

It gets pretty thin as I don't know how long Wyatt went in hiding to evade Harmonian agents chasing after him for his True Water Rune, but if the story is set properly, it is possible to give insight on how Wyatt possibly obtained his TR before he became Chris' father and then the Karayan warrior Jimba.
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killerslime
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby killerslime » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:19 am

But we kinda already know how he got his Water Rune, he raided a Harmonian temple during the First Fire Bringer War in the year 415 and he was already a member of the Fire bringer by that time. He would have to have a good reason to go to Zelant during that war. There is a theory that the Zexens are settlers from the Western Continent, possibly Zelant so he could be returning home to help out during this new conflict.

The biggest problem with using the Beast Rune is that it greatly limits what time period you can set the story in as it would have to take place after the second game.

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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby mackevin06 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:13 pm

I would love a female Tenkai. It would be a refreshing change, and a lot of my favorite characters are female anyway. I like the male characters equally, but a female Tenkai would be cool. Stat/gameplay-wise, I'd like her to be like a female version of Flik. I've always favored the warrior/mage hybrids.

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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:09 pm

Well, most Tenkais are warrior/mage hybrids, anyway. Maybe only Tir, Riou, and Frey are more mages than warriors, so blunt weapons are better suited for them than bladed weapons (Thomas with his 1h sword, Lazlo dual-wielding swords, and Kyril with a weapon similar to Zidane's from FF9).
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:15 pm

Tir, Riou and the prince were more like monks than mages, because they have martial arts training. Would be interesting to have a pure mage clad in robes and stuff. Or perhaps someone with a staff and sword to give it Gandalf style.

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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:10 pm

I think Tir was the best mage among the Tenkais,and Lazlo the best physical fighter. :wink:

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sticky-runes
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:39 pm

Lazlo is my fave because of his weapon choice and his costume!

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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:54 am

sticky-runes wrote:Tir, Riou and the prince were more like monks than mages, because they have martial arts training. Would be interesting to have a pure mage clad in robes and stuff. Or perhaps someone with a staff and sword to give it Gandalf style.


YOU. SHALL. NOT. PASS.

Haha, the joke had to be made, sorry. I have read somewhere that there's really something unheroic about long-range fighters, including magicians, and that's the reason we don't see many long-range fighters and pure magicians as RPG heroes.

Sasarai10 wrote:I think Tir was the best mage among the Tenkais,and Lazlo the best physical fighter. :wink:


I guess Soul Eater was just that overpowered, and for good reason. It defied the most common problem with status effects in RPGs. In other games, Instant Death does not work 100%, even on the weakest enemies, and yet it works like 80% of the time when it is used on the player party unless said party stacks up with items that prevent Instant Death.

Suikoden I featured a protagonist specializing in Darkness-type Instant Death magic, something not usually seen in most RPGs where the heroes are usually swordsmen with average magical talent at best. And unlike most RPGs, Instant Death spells from Soul Eater works 100% of the time except on bosses. This made Soul Eater a valuable means to finish random battles quickly, but at the same time it also offered spells to use against bosses or regular enemies that cannot be inflicted with Instant Death.

On the other hand, the Rune of Punishment, despite its fearsome reputation of vaporizing entire towns and naval fleets at the cost of becoming a curse to anyone who bears it, isn't really all that powerful in-game compared to even the True Elemental Runes and the two aspects of the Rune of Beginning: the Bright Shield and Black Sword runes.

It also had an additional baggage of damaging the user everytime it is used (good thing Lazlo was such a tough cookie to crack both in-game and in-story), and it's 3rd level spell isn't even near as powerful as the 1st level spell of Suikoden 1's Soul Eater Rune (10% chance of Instant Death at the cost of ~90% chance to kill the user vs 100% chance of Instant Death without immediate risk to the user).

There's a reason why people thought that Soul Eater was nerfed in Suikoden 4 so that it won't overshadow the Rune of Punishment, the featured True Rune in the game. Soul Eater was still an annihilation machine in the hands of Ted, the most powerful magician in that game, but it was nothing like when it was in the hands of Tir McDohl, which had Instant Death spells that work 100% of the time.
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:38 pm

YOU. SHALL. NOT. PASS.

Haha, the joke had to be made, sorry. I have read somewhere that there's really something unheroic about long-range fighters, including magicians, and that's the reason we don't see many long-range fighters and pure magicians as RPG heroes.


Wouldn't hurt to break the mold, though. I could understand for a zelda style RPG where you have one character who goes around doing everything so he'd need to be a good physical fighter, but Suikoden games feature heroes who are practically surrounded by friends at all times, so supposedly, the hero could be any class, as long as he or she recruits friends with different kinds of skills. That's how I see it, anyway.

And while we're mentioning Gandalf, he was a wizard with sword fighting skills, so he was more like a mage/warrior hybrid than a swordsman who just happens to have high magical stats.


I guess Soul Eater was just that overpowered, and for good reason. It defied the most common problem with status effects in RPGs. In other games, Instant Death does not work 100%, even on the weakest enemies, and yet it works like 80% of the time when it is used on the player party unless said party stacks up with items that prevent Instant Death.

Suikoden I featured a protagonist specializing in Darkness-type Instant Death magic, something not usually seen in most RPGs where the heroes are usually swordsmen with average magical talent at best. And unlike most RPGs, Instant Death spells from Soul Eater works 100% of the time except on bosses. This made Soul Eater a valuable means to finish random battles quickly, but at the same time it also offered spells to use against bosses or regular enemies that cannot be inflicted with Instant Death.

On the other hand, the Rune of Punishment, despite its fearsome reputation of vaporizing entire towns and naval fleets at the cost of becoming a curse to anyone who bears it, isn't really all that powerful in-game compared to even the True Elemental Runes and the two aspects of the Rune of Beginning: the Bright Shield and Black Sword runes.

It also had an additional baggage of damaging the user everytime it is used (good thing Lazlo was such a tough cookie to crack both in-game and in-story), and it's 3rd level spell isn't even near as powerful as the 1st level spell of Suikoden 1's Soul Eater Rune (10% chance of Instant Death at the cost of ~90% chance to kill the user vs 100% chance of Instant Death without immediate risk to the user).


This was one of the things I thought was well done in suikoden 4, which a lot of suikoden 4 bashers don't seem to acknowledge: Suikoden 4 did a better job of telling a story about a guy with a cursed rune. There are scenes in Suikoden 4 where characters actually discuss the danger of being close to somebody with that kind of power. In Suikoden 1, nobody really mentions the risks of staying close to the person bearing the soul eater.

Plus, the curse of the ROP was well integrated into gameplay - you couldn't rely on it in combat without sacrificing your own health. In Suikoden 1, you could blast enemies with deadly fingertips and black shadows without worrying about any side effects. I would actually forget that the hero even had a cursed rune at times. Yes, there were sad death scenes, but it's a war story - tragedies are gonna happen whether you carry around a rune that governs life and death or not. Then if you suggest using the Soul Eater at the final battle, Leknaat is like "no, you must never unleash that runes power!" and I'm like "oh, ok. I've been zapping monsters with it for weeks, but whatever you say."

I know they both operate in very different ways and claim victims for different reasons, but still... Well done to Suikoden 4 for giving us a more convincing experience of carrying a curse.

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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby EstrangedIX » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:25 pm

Totally agree about IV. With Lazlo the curse carried over into actual gameplay, rather than just as a story restriction that gameplay basically ignored with Tir.
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:07 am

Well said about RoP. Carrying the curse into gameplay does make sense, no matter how people hate it. I think it's just old schoolers sour-graping how the Soul Eater wasn't as powerful in S4 than in S1. I guessed it also made sense because Ted held SE for only 150 years in S4, but he held it for 300 years in S1, so maybe SE really was more powerful in S1 than in S4.

Nonetheless, one of the things I admired in Lazlo is that how he bore the curse of the RoP upon himself. As we delve into the story, we came to know how the RoP affected the lives of its previous bearers and their loved ones, and that yes, the RoP is indeed a curse to anyone who bears it.
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Re: Female Tenkai

Postby Antimatzist » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:42 am

Ok we drifted into OT, but I want to shar my opinion too.
I think RoP isn't a really good rune, neither gameplay-wise nor conception-wise. It feels like the Soul Eater, just that it is a tiny bit different. And the spells are not good enough that you would ever think using them later in the game. I also think it's bad conception that it's never really explained why Lazlo isn't killed by the rune.


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