Suikoden MMORPG

A place to post news and also give your ideas about the future of the Suikoden series.
Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:11 pm

But it will be good only for elite players who can afford the best equipment. This means everyone else has virtually zero chance of winning PvP!

From that description, the Rune of Punishment is the most suitable for that PvP setup.

But it's not like everyone wants to PvP. Let's say around 10-30% of people DON'T PvP for the heck of it. More than that, it's the storyline that's more important.

In my opinion, most MMORPGs fail because they focus TOO MUCH on PvP that if you don't PvP, there's no challenge, unless you're elite, of course.
This set-up will alienate other players who just want to enjoy the game, without worrying about his/her character's strength.
The principle "there are no weak, useless characters" will set the future Suikoden MMO different from the other MMORPGs out there.

If you notice, usually the heroes and his major allies are usually overpowered, be it in physical, magical, or in both aspects.

The goal of my stat system which limits the initial stat points distributed is to produce overpowered characters IN SOME ASPECTS, but not ALL OF THEM.
For example, high MAG players will usually have low STR, and vice versa. Now, as it seems, there will be MUNCHKINS who would try to cheat to gain the maximum possible stats, which is NOT healthy competition. One might as well buy loads and loads of stat stones and try to improve ALL their stats to the max, say, up to 999, excluding stat rank bonuses.

That said, notorious PvP-ONLY players ruined my games. T_T Call me weak or whatever, I don't care. I'll just enjoy the bloody game!

Since Suikoden's EXP system is level-gap based, EXP will be constant assuming you fight mobs of around the same level as you are. However, Suikoden storylines usually ends by the time the hero hits level 60. Let's say you can still "Scenario Quest" until level 65-75, how about giving level 75+ people some maps to explore, such as the Badlands(say, levels 65-80) or the Nameless Lands(say. levels 80-95)? That way, high-level characters can still grind without torturing themselves to death, like what usually happens during the late levels.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
Mikain Clan King
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: Playing games on my computer

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Mikain Clan King » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:45 am

Make an elite class that can't be used for, or interact in, PvP. Or maybe even make servers that are only PvP.
"The duel with Genkaku.... It continues here....."
-Han Cunningham

"This is your final test... Can you win this time, Riou?"
-Leon Silverburg

User avatar
Rooks
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Rooks » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:29 pm

Well, after reading this thread, I have decided to share my thoughts. Although, I am quite sure most of those excited about the prospect of a Suikoden MMORPG will not like them.

First, I'll just say that I find the very idea of a Suikoden MMO repulsive for several reasons, none the least of which is that it would simply violate many of the moral and philosophical contexts which have been clearly established in the main series. To only give one example: The ongoing narrative of showing that power is in and of itself impotent to prevent or lessen conflict, and that conflict itself cannot address or correct the basic flaws in human nature that lead to it. That is, we have seen nearly every True Rune bearer become terribly scarred by their experience, so much so that they either remove the rune and flee like Riou and Chris and maybe the Prince depending on your ending, or if they are stuck with it, begin to shun society at large and sequester themselves away, like Tir and Lazlo, or, like Luc, Arshtat, and Windy, lose their minds to a certain extent. This is evident of what can be called the games' moral and philosophical narrative: that power in and of itself is pointless and cannot alter the fundamental problems that people face.

With this in mind, an MMO where conflict is not only tolerated but even encouraged by the game itself would be an insult to the games that have made the series what it is. In terms of the standard MMO setting and plot, which emphasizes leveling up to gain "Power" and constantly pits its own players against one another for no other reason than mere entertainment, there is no way that any kind of Suikoden MMO could exist without violating and contradicting that which has been established in the earlier games. Thus, no matter how much you focus on stats, rune usage, and character classes, unless you first address this fundamental issue, then all of your ideas will be completely thoughtless. One thing that I find particularly insulting -not only to the games, but to myself as a fan of the games- is that those who propose a Suikoden MMO seem to be willing to completely discard any continuation of a moral narrative simply for the sake of their own mere amusement.

I could go on. But suffice it to say that unless you an truly innovate the genre of the MMO to include not just a mere plot, but a true narrative that is consistent with the games in the main series, then there is simply no way that you could make a functioning Suikoden MMO. What the result of the efforts would be is simply a mockery of a Suikoden, a pale shadow that only copies the mere form of the games without any attention paid to its heart.
Ominous Latinus Phraseus

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:30 pm

Rooks wrote:Well, after reading this thread, I have decided to share my thoughts. Although, I am quite sure most of those excited about the prospect of a Suikoden MMORPG will not like them.

First, I'll just say that I find the very idea of a Suikoden MMO repulsive for several reasons, none the least of which is that it would simply violate many of the moral and philosophical contexts which have been clearly established in the main series. To only give one example: The ongoing narrative of showing that power is in and of itself impotent to prevent or lessen conflict, and that conflict itself cannot address or correct the basic flaws in human nature that lead to it. That is, we have seen nearly every True Rune bearer become terribly scarred by their experience, so much so that they either remove the rune and flee like Riou and Chris and maybe the Prince depending on your ending, or if they are stuck with it, begin to shun society at large and sequester themselves away, like Tir and Lazlo, or, like Luc, Arshtat, and Windy, lose their minds to a certain extent. This is evident of what can be called the games' moral and philosophical narrative: that power in and of itself is pointless and cannot alter the fundamental problems that people face.

With this in mind, an MMO where conflict is not only tolerated but even encouraged by the game itself would be an insult to the games that have made the series what it is. In terms of the standard MMO setting and plot, which emphasizes leveling up to gain "Power" and constantly pits its own players against one another for no other reason than mere entertainment, there is no way that any kind of Suikoden MMO could exist without violating and contradicting that which has been established in the earlier games. Thus, no matter how much you focus on stats, rune usage, and character classes, unless you first address this fundamental issue, then all of your ideas will be completely thoughtless. One thing that I find particularly insulting -not only to the games, but to myself as a fan of the games- is that those who propose a Suikoden MMO seem to be willing to completely discard any continuation of a moral narrative simply for the sake of their own mere amusement.

I could go on. But suffice it to say that unless you an truly innovate the genre of the MMO to include not just a mere plot, but a true narrative that is consistent with the games in the main series, then there is simply no way that you could make a functioning Suikoden MMO. What the result of the efforts would be is simply a mockery of a Suikoden, a pale shadow that only copies the mere form of the games without any attention paid to its heart.


Precisely. Now, I would like to quote Leknaat from S2:

"Power will not grant you peace."
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

burgler09
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:46 pm

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby burgler09 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:32 pm

it sounds like as good of an idea as an online final fantasy, terrible. mmo's suck and shouldn't be associated with good games

User avatar
Mikain Clan King
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: Playing games on my computer

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Mikain Clan King » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:15 pm

burgler09 wrote:it sounds like as good of an idea as an online final fantasy, terrible. mmo's suck and shouldn't be associated with good games

Much like video games associating with movies, books, or shows.
"The duel with Genkaku.... It continues here....."
-Han Cunningham

"This is your final test... Can you win this time, Riou?"
-Leon Silverburg

The Director
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby The Director » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:50 am

Hopefully there will once be a good video game adaptation, but I doubt it. They can only just turn some books into good films and rarely into good games. Changing something into another genre is never easy.

As for all the points how conflict would be encouraged in an MMO.

If I was going to make a Suikoden MMO, the sort of main goal (not the story) would be to gather all the true runes. So anyone who does have a true rune would be hunted for their rune, which would enforce the philosophy.

"Power will not grant you peace."

But it might not just be PvP to get it, you can learn tricks or special skills from guilds. So for instance if you were a member of the Howling Voice Guild you can use guns, and as result can become a specialized mercenary. Or alternatively, if you learnt to read (in game) you can teach others what you read. But books would be a rarity, so you would have to trade them.

Or organization in the form of an army, which can be government, or independent (outlaws). And organizations have need of people who don't fight, merchants, people with specialised skills etc.

What I would imagine this MMO to be would be where cooperation is encouraged to gain or keep anything. Or alternatively hide.
And even then you would never be out of things to do.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:54 pm

The Director wrote:Hopefully there will once be a good video game adaptation, but I doubt it. They can only just turn some books into good films and rarely into good games. Changing something into another genre is never easy.

As for all the points how conflict would be encouraged in an MMO.

If I was going to make a Suikoden MMO, the sort of main goal (not the story) would be to gather all the true runes. So anyone who does have a true rune would be hunted for their rune, which would enforce the philosophy.

"Power will not grant you peace."

But it might not just be PvP to get it, you can learn tricks or special skills from guilds. So for instance if you were a member of the Howling Voice Guild you can use guns, and as result can become a specialized mercenary. Or alternatively, if you learnt to read (in game) you can teach others what you read. But books would be a rarity, so you would have to trade them.

Or organization in the form of an army, which can be government, or independent (outlaws). And organizations have need of people who don't fight, merchants, people with specialised skills etc.

What I would imagine this MMO to be would be where cooperation is encouraged to gain or keep anything. Or alternatively hide.
And even then you would never be out of things to do.


Aside from powering up yourself just to boost your ego.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
Author
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 9:18 am

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Author » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:43 pm

I have quite a good image in mind of what Suikoden MMORPG would be. Suikoden MMORPG cannot possibly be bad/dreadful/terrible/disgusting/apocalypse/bieber. But the MMORPG could be terrible :P it's not about the material it was adapted from, but how well it had been adapted.

Assuming the MMORPG would be a parallel universe, a lot of the strict plot elements could be changed to make it a viable MMORPG. I haven't read the entire thread but here are some random thoughts. I think Suikoden's strongest game device is the Runes and a game about Runes isn't so bad. True Runes could easily represent the classes. With the number of them though, it might have to be downsized, balanced, or consider second classes. Downsizing is something I personally wouldn't like because I feel Suikoden isn't complete without one of the TR. Balancing it could be a challenge. Certain "class"/TR could be tank, heal, dps and pve/pvp. I have a say about pvp below but basically, the TR's would be assigned to specific roles. And then second classes is pretty much having two TR. It's also possible to have other Runes attached like Fury.

Suikoden MMORPG could also utilize combination attacks and that would be epic. For instance, group Black Sword Rune must cast this on boss with Bright Shield Rune to create this. This means that spamming spells isn't what a Suikoden MMORPG would just be like. PvE content would focus on combination of spells to create real powerful spells. Coordination might be difficult but maybe with some animation spell, it would be easier to know when to cast the spell.

For PvP, I was thinking of the war system Suikoden has. I have no idea how this could be possible atm x3

And of course, the Stars of Destiny. Well, plot-wise, this could easily be integrated, but not consistent. Give it some bonus, like racial bonus, then when you play Suikoden MMO, you'd see an opening sequence at how you've been recruited in the army became part of the SoD :P

For those of you who kept demanding of the plot, I think it could easily be integrated as well. Suikoden had always been about wars, fighting for a cause. As a game, you wouldn't want to make up a real solution to that. You let them just fight with that plot in mind. A game's not really about the plot, but about the gamers wanting to play it more. Plot merely give it depth so it seemed intelligent...and so they could sell merchandise.

PS. It's a bad idea to have any existing characters be playable. It. Just. Is.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:00 pm

I created a new stat sim for a future game based on Suikoden 2 stats, with branching out jobs.
No skill system yet, though. But I'm planning to have characters use job points for all passive skills, while all active skills are accessed via runes only.

HERE -->
Simulator.zip


Please feel free to fiddle with it, and comment about it.

Many thanks!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by ninjaluc79 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
gilgamesh31
Banned User
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:21 pm
Location: London, England (Sarady)

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby gilgamesh31 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:29 am

Wow, sounds interesting! i cant download it because im on my wii internet which sucks. What do you mean by branching jobs though?
If it's not found out, a lie becomes the truth.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:08 am

Like this:

Fighter -> Knight / Warrior
Thief -> Rogue / Assassin
Guardian -> Monk / Martial Artist
Magician -> Sorcerer / Cleric
Archer -> Ranger / Sniper
Wanderer -> Gypsy / Merchant

Knight -> Dragon Knight / Rune Knight
Warrior -> Rune Knight / Mercenary

Rogue -> Raider / Trickster
Assassin -> Trickster / Ninja

Monk -> Exorcist / Champion
Martial Artist -> Champion / Master

Sorcerer -> Wizard / Runemaster
Cleric -> Runemaster / Priest

Ranger -> Hunter / Rune Archer
Sniper -> Rune Archer -> Gunner

Gypsy -> Bard / Narcissist
Merchant -> Narcissist / Medic

Notable characters for each 2nd job class:

Dragon Knight - Joshua Levenheit, Milia and Futch
Rune Knight (caster type) - Grenseal, Flik, Camus, Culgan, Geddoe, Lazlo, and Kyle
Rune Knight (magic sword type) - Seed (can be also caster type), Edge, Martin, Richard
Mercenary - Viktor, Geddoe's crew (except Estela and Queen)

Raider - Varkas, the Lampdragon Bandits, Kika and her pirate group
Trickster (Gadget type) - Juppo, Meg, and Belle
Trickster (Gambler type) - Shilo, Rita, and Linfa
Ninja (Shrike type) - Kasumi, Mizuki, Watari, Shigure
Ninja (possibly scroll type) - Kage, Rokkaku Chancellor, Mondo, Sasuke, and Ayame

Exorcist - Kahn Marley
Champion - Tir, Riou, Hoi, Hugo (though he wields daggers), Frey, and Roy
Master - Ronnie Bell, L.C. Chan, Emily, Juan, Reinhold, Mitsuba (though she wields a broadsword)

Wizard (pure caster) - Sarah, Mazus, Warlock, Pablo, Crowley, Zerase
Wizard (battle type) - Zamza
Runemaster (caster/scrollmaker) - Jeane, Raura, Hortez VII
Runemaster (Blinking type) - Viki
Priest - Luc and Sasarai

Hunter - Lotte(?), Kinnison (with Shiro), Ayda, Stallion
Rune Archer - Ted, Millie, Lotte(?)
Gunner - Clive, Elza, Cathari

Bard - Nei
Narcissist - Reinbach, Milich, Simone and Vincent
Medic - Liukan, Huan, Tuta, Mio, Galleon
Last edited by ninjaluc79 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
gilgamesh31
Banned User
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:21 pm
Location: London, England (Sarady)

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby gilgamesh31 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:14 am

Oh i see, cool. You wont be able to change jobs though will you like in final fantasy 3 and the like?
If it's not found out, a lie becomes the truth.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:24 am

Hmmm, much more like traditional MMOs, though. But yes, FF3 style will do.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
gilgamesh31
Banned User
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:21 pm
Location: London, England (Sarady)

Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby gilgamesh31 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:37 am

Alright nice! Sounds interesting. Keep up the good work.
If it's not found out, a lie becomes the truth.


Return to “Future Suikoden News and Speculation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests