Changing Companies After Suikoden IV?

Eternal Rune · Post by **Eternal Rune** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:21 am

hello...
i finished suikoden iv about a month ago and just thought....why konami won't sell the suikoden rights to another company???

its obvious that they damage the series each time they add a new title (with the exception of suikoden 2), i mean, when they announced suikoden 3 i was so happy, and even happier when i got it and played it. same thing for suikoden 4 even if (3 &4) were kind of let downs for me, but even so i liked them because i love the series. BUT, if konami were to sell the suikoden series to, lets say, square-enix... i am sure next titles won't be such let downs, because obviously konami doesn't really care about what the fans demand for this game, and they treat it like a secondary game due to the fact that other games (such as metal gear solid) always seems to better its self. Square-enix, which is basically all about RPG's and all about IMPROVING THIER GAMES rather than just CHANGING THEM, will be an ideal substitue to konami... they don't even have to sell it, just let them develop it...

i know what you'll say, that changing companies can only damage it, but i would rather see them damage it for one title then repair the next titles rather than damaging all the next title... so what do you think???

RageRune · Post by **RageRune** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:42 am

its obvious that they damage the series each time they add a new title (with the exception of suikoden 2), i mean, when they announced suikoden 3 i was so happy, and even happier when i got it and played it. same thing for suikoden 4 even if (3 &4) were kind of let downs for me, but even so i liked them because i love the series. BUT, if konami were to sell the suikoden series to, lets say, square-enix... i am sure next titles won't be such let downs, because obviously konami doesn't really care about what the fans demand for this game, and they treat it like a secondary game due to the fact that other games (such as metal gear solid) always seems to better its self. Square-enix, which is basically all about RPG's and all about IMPROVING THIER GAMES rather than just CHANGING THEM, will be an ideal substitue to konami... they don't even have to sell it, just let them develop it...

Well that's all based on opinion. I know for myself that the Suikoden series could be damaged if Konami were to sell it to a differnt company, because that would mean that some of the original or later staff members could not be able to work on it and that would mean that a whole new staff would have to carry the seires from where it last left off (though the same can be said for Suikoden 4).

Secondly, I doubt Square-Enix could improve the Suikoden series. There are some RPG fans out there who are skeptical about S-E lately (especially after FFX,FFX-2, and Unlimited Saga. not to mention the countless FFVII sequels), and there are those who just flat out hate S-E. and I would'nt say S-E were improving thier games, more like pulling them out. But anyway if the Suiko series were to be sold to S-E then that would be really bad for us Suiko fans since some of us want something different away from FF and it's similarities.

I doubt that Konami would actually sell the seires to someone else just because the fans say the game are getting weaker. Just wait until another Suiko game comes up to see if it's better than Suiko4 or not. Every series has it's ups(Suiko2) and downs(Suiko4), it'll hopefully go back to being great.

Eternal Rune · Post by **Eternal Rune** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:05 am

i really didn't think that there are people who hated S.E... and i'm sorry if i was imposing or anything but it is JUST my opinion an i don't mean to dectate it

but anyway, knowing that there is a risk of damaging the series i would have to agree, but i don't think that would happen especialy since S.E did a very good job with FFX.. not with its graphics (which was ace) or the story line(which is awesome) or with the characters (which are spectacular) , but the good job was that they took the good things from the previous FF's and ADDED to them, and they DID NOT change much from the series...

in the SUIKODEN case, i would say that having played all of them, i would have to agree that suikoden 2 was the best and the UPS in the series like you said, and i think konami knows that, and if Square-Enix were to buy suikoden's rights then THEY would know that and if that happend they could do what they did with FFX all over again.... because lets be real, FFX was one of the greatest RPG's, and it didn't have a fraction of what any of the suikoden's have , and that is an UNMATCHED plot, which favours suikoden over any game................ or so i think

Vincent of Scarlet Moon · Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:11 am

All still opinion. All based on the assumption that everyone disliked Suikoden III and IV and that everyone likes Final Fantasy X and considers it the greatest. In my opinion, Final Fantasy X was bland. Suikoden III and Suikoden IV were not.

Square-Enix would make Suikoden simply another Final Fantasy. I don't want that. Besides, Konami seemed to try enough to do that themselves on occasion. And the Final Fantasy series has always been about completely changing each game, new system, new world, new story, new characters, each game has been unconnected in every way, save for Final Fantasy X-2.

Besides, the Suikoden franchise is not worth much either. Certainly not enough for any other company to want to snap up the rights. And if it was, then Konami wouldn't want to sell the rights.

Mr Fitcher · Post by **Mr Fitcher** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:51 am

Square-enix?! Oh damn I dont want Suikodens to come like FinalFantasies.

Post by **patapi** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:44 am

There's no such thing as "improving" without change. Well, unless you are comparing III and IV, then there might be things missing. But the transition from II to III was entirely positive, where they built upon the basic foundation introduced in II.

Are you sure you want a new Suikoden title, or just a Suikoden II redux?

Shirofan · Post by **Shirofan** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:13 am

There is the problem of change for change's sake; this seemed to be most evident in IV but was present in III as well.

Instead of taking a system and refining it without changing the premise, several things were completely overhauled; and some of them failed miserably.

If another company did take over the rights to Suikoden then they would be likely to rebuild the systems from scratch; and in that respect would be more likely to throw the baby out with the bathwater than Konami would.

You don't always need to replace what you have, you do have to think of ways of making the existing systems better though.

Eternal Rune · Post by **Eternal Rune** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:26 pm

Shirofan wrote:You don't always need to replace what you have, you do have to think of ways of making the existing systems better though.

that is exactly what i've been trying to say, i don't say that square-enix is SUPPOSED to take over suikoden, i'm just trying to say that suikoden is a game with A LOT of potential, and it is heart-breaking to see what konami is diong to it game after another.. and i wouldn't want the next titles to be an exact replica of suikoden 2 (though a remake would be ace), its just that reading what others think is missing from suikoden 3 & 4 and seeing that konami doesn't try to hear the fans (who are the ones playing the games afterall) is just disturbing, and that's why i said that konami should sell suikoden... but i guess we won't be sure if konami hears us or not until the next suikoden.. and if konami is reading this now i just want to say this: "SUIKODEN IS A FINE GAME THAT HAS A FINE STORY, AND YOU GUYS NEED TO DEVELOP ONE TITLE AFTER ANOTHER, AND IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, THEN HAND IT OVER TO SOME ONE WHO WILL"..." i hear murayama(not so sure about the spelling) has a company"

RageRune · Post by **RageRune** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:10 pm

That's alright, everyone has thier own opinion, and I admit I was hasty in replying, but I understand what you're saying now.

ts just that reading what others think is missing from suikoden 3 & 4 and seeing that konami doesn't try to hear the fans (who are the ones playing the games afterall) is just disturbing, and that's why i said that konami should sell suikoden... but i guess we won't be sure if konami hears us or not until the next suikoden..

Hopefully Konami will listen to thier fans regarding Suiko4. And they should, I mean you remember what happened in Japan regarding Suiko4, where Suiko4 sold less than Suiko3, or that a Suiko fansite in Japan shut down because of how bad Suiko4 was. I think if Konami didi'nt listen to both Us and Asian (possibly European) fans then Suiko5 will be just as bad as Suiko4 and some fans might leave the series. THough we have to be positive and patient and wait to see how Suiko5 turns out.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:22 pm

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/09/08 ... 06952.html

He made some game company called "Blue Moon Studio." They're making some game with Taito, where if you get shot once, you die. Miki Higashino is on the staff too, so you can expect some good music.

Eao · Post by **Eao** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:40 am

If they sell to Square-enix. well have Kingdom hearts 3, with suikoden characters in it. that makes me convulse. SE has lots of games they can work with, they don't need Suikoden. They have Live-a-live to give to an american audiance, they have EVO serch for eden (i heard there was a second) to remake. There is no reason, Plus people alredy are fed up with SE for making horrible Final Fantasies, the golden age of SNES is over, and FF7 even killed it for some. The'll Kill Suikoden.

Koei has a Suikoden, so having genso suikoden will work. I'm still working through Tales of Destney so I'm not sure how Namco would handle ownership. Leave it with Konami, its home.

KoyuRedd · Post by **KoyuRedd** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:42 am

Eao wrote:Leave it with Konami, its home.

I agree. Konami has started it, and konami will have to end it. But still: Suiko4's battle system seemed like a reproduction of Final Fantasy, so in a way I'd say that it's already having a taste.

They just need to gather all the good stuff like SE does with its games, and that way Suikoden will continue making a success.

Post by **Vextor** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:22 pm

Suikoden 5 is supposedly being produced jointly by Konami and Hudson Soft (which is mostly owned by Konami now), so there will be some change, I'm sure.

As for the "Blue Moon Studio," the game is already being sold in Japan. It is called "Tsukiyo ni Saraba," and so far the reviews are not very good. Sales figures are very disappointing.

Aeris Blight · Post by **Aeris Blight** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:01 pm

if they want to sell Suikoden V better, some things defiantly has to change. And I am talking about the action, and the tension! I mean, nothing really serious happened in IV... Nothing that made me drop my controller during gaming

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:32 pm

Vincent of Scarlet Moon wrote:All still opinion. All based on the assumption that everyone disliked Suikoden III and IV and that everyone likes Final Fantasy X and considers it the greatest. In my opinion, Final Fantasy X was bland. Suikoden III and Suikoden IV were not.

My opinion is that I didn't like Final Fantasy X. It was forgettable and the main character was childish therefore often annoying. FF IX was also forgettable but at least none of those characters annoyed me. So it seems like Square-Enix is going downhill. I will give FFXII a chance but then I've given up on that series.

I actually liked Suikoden III a lot, and I liked almost all the changes made to it, the only exception being that Leknaat didn't appear to any of the heroes. I didn't like Suikoden IV very much for reasons that many have already stated.

But, I have my fingers crossed that Konami will learn from its past mistakes. At least unlike the FF series they aren't selling more games the more they wreck the series. Money talks. But, I bet if they do a bad job at Suikoden V and it doesn't sell either then there won't be any Suikoden VI for the few remaining fans.

I don't mind remakes. Resident Evil remake was a very enjoyable game. They took the original and changed it only slightly to make it better, added more depth and some side stories to flesh out the world. If there were a FFVII, Suikoden I or II remake I would happily buy them. It's far better than playing something like Suikoden IV. However, if they never try new things, like many of you have said, you'll never get something ground shatteringly good like Resident Evil 4. RE4 is totally different than Resident Evil remake and yet better in almost every way. So that payed off. I am keeping my fingers crossed for Suikoden V.