Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

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Wolkendrache
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Wolkendrache » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:25 pm

No, we’re not going hyperbole, we’ve all made suggestions, didn’t we? Nobody complained about your suggestions (eagle men, axe rabbits and holly boys). I just didn’t understand why you came up with Warcraft. It’s a different game genre (war battle strategy), the setting is a world which is obviously supposed to be more close to the Tolkien universe. Because of all this races play a completely different role. Your point was that Warcraft has even more races, so people shouldn’t complain about too many races in Suikoden, right? I think Suikoden and Warcraft can’t be compared in that aspect. Look, if someone complains about too many knights in Suikoden, you could bring up plenty of points to disagree, but saying something like “stop complaining, there are even more knights in Age of Empires” would be… meh.

A Manticore would be badass as an enemy boss. Baba-Yuga sounds fun, I love how their huts stand on a chicken leg, which would probably be Winger’s legs in Suikoden. :wink:
I’d really love a humanoid race with horns and a tail, like Yohn but with human legs. The horns could be individual: some have curved ones, some have straight ones, some have antlers.

Neclord X wrote:
AlOnZo wrote:How about throwing some Mermen in the mix?


Hell no, that would kill all the fantasies about mermaids puting eggs on your stomach :D

Let’s have 3 siblings. A merman with Georg’s head, Viktor’s arms, and Belcoot’s six-pack: for player type A; a mermaid with Valeria’s head, Jeane’s upper part of the body, and Kika’s waist: for player type B; a merknight with black armor and helmet, and a damage*10 rune useable every round: for those who wonder what’s so awesome about that mermaid or that merman.
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Neclord X
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Neclord X » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:29 am

sticky-runes wrote:what they did not need to do in Skyrim was create an entire DLC based on vampires and vampire hunters waging their own war that ends up completely overshadowing everything else that's going on Skyrim, like the civil war situation and the return of the dragons. Dawnguard was unforgivably bad, in my opinion.


I think that's the best they could do toguether with the other DLC more than anything because the story of any of those DLC is better than every questline in the game including the main quest :lol: Also it contains most part of the coolest equipment in the game.


BrucePrintscreen wrote:To be honest I am sick and tired of the Tolkien approach to fantasy races. The Tolkien style of fantasy has been milked dry by now. I would embrace any kind of fantasy settings that doesn't base itself on nordic mythology or interpret it in another way.


BrucePrintscreen wrote:Well, why not seeking inspiration in other mythologies? Slavic mythology is extremely rich, why not a Babayaga for example, and I'm not even talking about Assyrian and Persian stuff. A manticore would be awesome. Sphinxes, centaurs... Plenty of possibilities.


MMMM, on one side I agree with you, on the other it always ends being the "Tolkien approach" despite the inspiration anyway.

I mean you can have elves, hobbits and dwarves or you can have centaurs, satyrs and cyclops it also ends being the same:

-Humans
-The laboring race
-The magic race
-The cute one
-The evil race

What we have to do es get rid of that clichés, it doesn't matter if you get rid of dwarves if later you replace them with another race that is not dwarves but Works exactly as dwarves do.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby sticky-runes » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:19 am

Neclord X wrote:
I think that's the best they could do toguether with the other DLC more than anything because the story of any of those DLC is better than every questline in the game including the main quest :lol: Also it contains most part of the coolest equipment in the game.


At least you can avoid the dragons and war story if you don't want to pursue them, and focus on other quests and factions and play freely deciding your character's own story. Dawnguard had vampires attacking towns whether you wanted to be a vampire killer or not, I hated that vampires were forced on us. And the Dawnguard quest consists of wandering through endless valleys with that cunt Serana who is basically Skyrim's version of Sierra.

Neclord X wrote:
MMMM, on one side I agree with you, on the other it always ends being the "Tolkien approach" despite the inspiration anyway.

I mean you can have elves, hobbits and dwarves or you can have centaurs, satyrs and cyclops it also ends being the same:

-Humans
-The laboring race
-The magic race
-The cute one
-The evil race

What we have to do es get rid of that clichés, it doesn't matter if you get rid of dwarves if later you replace them with another race that is not dwarves but Works exactly as dwarves do.


In some respects, Suikoden has avoided cliches because we don't get any "evil race", the bad guys are usually a corrupt human government or invading enemy nation, not creatures of darkness trying to spread their evil influence throughout the land (unless you consider Neclord and his undead forces)

Personally I enjoy some cliches in my fantasy, as long as there's something different thrown into the mix. Gau in Suikoden 3 was a refreshing change from the other kobolds we had in previous games because he was a moody guy with a spear instead of a happy little dog with a short sword like Kuromimi and Gengen. And Bergen was fascinated with magical studies instead of digging holes and making things from metal like all the other dwarves.

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:51 am

Indeed guys, I agree with both of you. When I said I was sick of the Tolkien approach, I meant less about the choice of races than the roles assigned to each of them.

And truly, the relativity of evilness in Suikoden is what makes the series so great.

As a conclusion, in a hypothetical Suikoden 6, I would love to see an elfic version of Luca Blight rising to become the Ayatollah of Elves all around the Suikoden world and unleashing an elfic blitzkrieg over poor citizens of other races.

I often stated that, if I were to write Suikoden 6, I would put my beloved Valeria in the antagonistic camp. I would love her to sincerely believe she is on the good side until she realises that she has been manipulated into being a new Kwanda Rosman. I want to see her living this dilemna at the end of her brilliant career and only after you defeat her she comes to face the truth and is offered one final redemption by joining your stars of destiny. Now that's what I call a Suikoden situation!

Imagine how perfect it would be if she sided with evil elves because she cannot fathom the idea that the once oppressed people she used to defend has become decades later the new menace to world peace?

...okay I'm sending my CV to Konami now...

Wolkendrache
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Wolkendrache » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:17 am

You can’t fully avoid clichés, and you don’t have to. Suikoden was excellent in giving those races its own touch. Elves and all other races are different from their original mythology. On the one hand you could criticize that their race features are sparse and superficial, but at the same time you must praise that Suikoden focused on personalities rather than race features. The result is that Isato is more similar to Mondo than to Stallion, while Sylvina is more similar to Yoshino than to Urda. It’s not a bad thing either.

I’d like to see antagonist elves as well, but not evil ones. To be honest, I found Luca Blight’s personality too exaggerated, especially after I got to know that he never bore the Beast Rune. There are a lot of indications that Luca was a brilliant politician and strategist as well, but this contradicts to his depiction as “evil demon” hated by either side.

I loved the stories of Godard and Yuri in Vandal Hearts 2. Godard was a reverend who saved the life of a sick child. Since it was forbidden to “work” on Sabbath, he was exiled by the church, and the healed child was killed by it. Yuri was a clergyman who believed his “messiah” saved the world, but he later finds ancient scriptures that describe how he “cleansed the world” with fire and war, making him the destroyer of the world (it is later revealed by the protagonist that this messiah did this to prevent mankind to destroy themselves, because it had become so powerful that it created weapons which began to destroy the world). The world view of these two got shattered, so they ended up as antagonist, maybe similar to Luc. An “elven Luca Blight” makes me think of Saradiart from Kartia. He was indeed badass.
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Neclord X
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Neclord X » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:29 am

sticky-runes wrote:
At least you can avoid the dragons and war story if you don't want to pursue them, and focus on other quests and factions and play freely deciding your character's own story. Dawnguard had vampires attacking towns whether you wanted to be a vampire killer or not, I hated that vampires were forced on us. And the Dawnguard quest consists of wandering through endless valleys with that cunt Serana who is basically Skyrim's version of Sierra.



One of the funniest runs I had, if not the funniest of all, was my latest run. It was a while since I played it and put it because I was bored so I was just roaming around skyrim killing anyone that make me mad...basically I played a psycopath, leather pants and execution mask and roam skyrim killing people, I have a cute hut with a mountain of skulls I gathered :lol:

Weirdest thing is that I have one vampire lord with main quest, dragonborn and dawnguard quest complete, same with a archmage two handed khajit and...they are not nearly as powerful as the psycopath that only has two swords and life regen enchanted clothing XDDDD Even with vampire lord or the khajit and all the spells and shouts I have problems in solitude. but with the psycopath, elemental fury and 1st level dragon form is all I have, still I can rolfstomp the entire city guard+imperial army just swinging the swords around 8)


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