Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

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Wolkendrache
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Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Wolkendrache » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:22 am

Alright, I’ve decided to open a thread for this.

S1
Races: Elves and Kobolds

S2
Races: Kobolds and Wingers (and 1 Elf, 1 Vampire)
Monster Stars: Wolf-Dog, Griffin, Unicorn, Octopi
Monster Non-Stars: Flying Squirrels

S3
Races: Ducks and Lizards (and 1 Elf, 1 Kobold, 1 Winger)
Monster Stars: Griffin, Dragon, Mantor
Monster Non-Stars: Dogs

S4
Races: Nay-Kobolds and Mermaids (and 2 Elves)

S5
Races: Dwarves and Beavers (and 2 Elves)
Monster Stars: Dragon Horses, Turtle, Water Snake
Monster Non-Stars: Doremi-Elves

In a future main game…
- Which new races would you introduce or which existing race would you make reappear, and why?
- Which new monster stars would you introduce or which existing monster stars would you make reappear, and why?
- Which monster non-stars would you introduce or use, and why?

(To complete S4, how about a crab, a squid, a starfish, a sponge and a diving squirrel as monster non-stars?) :wink:
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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sticky-runes
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby sticky-runes » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:00 am

You forgot vampires and lycanthropes (Bob and Ernst)
Bob was kind of lame (they couldn't even be bothered to think up an interesting name for him?) I wouldn't mind finding out what happened to Ernst, Norma and Levi after they set off to find out about his condition.

Dragon knights should make a comeback at some point, with Bright and Thrash as playable stars (Milia recruitable as Commander) and some new knights and dragons. A chance to explore the story behind the Dragon Rune would be nice as well. How To Train Your Dragon - Suikoden style!

I've said many times that I'd like to see Lun progressing as the first dragon cavalrywoman with her own mount (maybe she can name it Harpoon in the tradition of dragon cavalrymen naming their mounts after weapons)

Those creatures the armoured cavalry were riding in S1 need a bit of explanation. We're not told anything about them, we just find our that our dad and his knights ride on a bunch of weird velociraptors and never see them again.

I'd love to see another wolf like Shiro, or perhaps Shiro himself returning. Maybe even a pack of wolves, with focuses on various attributes.

How about a recruitable tribe of axe bunnies? :wink:

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Neclord X
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Neclord X » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:27 am

Suikoden I had dwarves too.

- Which new races would you introduce or which existing race would you make reappear, and why?

I'd prefer if they put some focus on existing races instead of adding more, I specially like to see more mermaids, but I always liked the idea of a friendly undead race with people like Sir Daniel Fortesque.

- Which new monster stars would you introduce or which existing monster stars would you make reappear, and why?

None. I'd like to have unicorns, griffins, dragons, rhinos, giant wolves and such but as mount in units for tactical battles and may be as mounts but not as stars of destiny

- Which monster non-stars would you introduce or use, and why?

I wouldn't do that, I would use wolfs, eagles and such as weapons/partners of characters like Bonaparte was instead making them standalone characters.

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AlOnZo
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby AlOnZo » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:17 am

How about throwing some Mermen in the mix? A whole entire race of Derek Zoolanders.

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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Wolkendrache » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:30 am

Here’s what I’m thinking of…

Humanoid Races:
- I’d prefer more Wingers in the first place, but a different tribe, a more independent one, not from the slums.
- Minos or Minotaurus, but with a human face, and everything human except horns, tail, and a characteristic hairiness.

Monster SoD:
- A chimera with different elemental based attacks/actions.
- A bear, I mean a real one without Star Dragon Sword. :wink:
- If the story takes place in the south near Falena, then an Ulse.

Monster Non-Stars:
- Cut Rabbits is actually a good idea, I mean rabbits are cute. Not that it would be my first choice but I could imagine Konami use them.
- If there is a lot of forest in the game, then a Holly Elf (maybe as SoD) and 4 or 5 individual Holly Boys/Girls as Non-stars.
- A Golem for every element, but that’s a little D&D-ish.
- A Pixie gang.
- A monkey gang like in Shonen Sarutobi Sasuke (my favourite movie as child). I loved how they tried to support their master and train alongside him, they basically tried to copycat him. Non-stars are weaker than SoD, so most people don’t like to waste a space using them. How about changing the system: we don’t make them full fighters. You can put them in your convoy, and they will sometimes randomly appear in battle and imitate some of your prominent recruits (attacking in the style/clothing of that character. If more than 1 monkey is in the convoy, there’s a small chance they’ll copycat a unite attack. Their main purpose is not adding damage (even though there’s a chance they do), it’s just entertaining the audience, that’s better than just being a weak and unimportant character.

@sticky: I didn’t forget vampires, but I forgot Bob. I’m not sure how to categorize a were-something. Dragon knights, Lun, armored cavalry: agree, agree, agree. Wolfpack: I like good old loyal Shiro, but we’ve had enough dogs or dog-like creatures.

@NeclordX: I like the idea of monster SoD. I mean these aren’t just animals to mount, they’re rare mysterious creatures with a human spirit and a noble heart, and they’re not inferior to humans in terms of wisdom. Even those that can’t use human language can at least understand it. The only problem about most of them so far is that they suck in battle.
I like the idea of having 4 or 5 characters with animal/monster compatriots which could be the non-stars. If Bonaparte was a full non-star fighter, you’d need to make room for him in the party, but the good thing is that his attack with Millie could be a unite instead of a spell, so Millie would have 1 more rune slot.

@Alonzo: Here is the perfect Narcissist Mermen theme…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBx-8jqiGfA
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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sticky-runes
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:32 am

If not Shiro or any more wolves, then a tiger or lion or panther. Ernst was a leopard or cheetah? Having a natural big cat (not a nay kobold or were-cat) would be nice as well.

An actual bear as a SOD would be nice.

I do like Feather, Siegfried, Byakuren and Genoh, but what deters me from using them is that they take up two slots in the party. S3 had the right idea by giving creatures one slot and allowing people to mount them in combat. This should also have been done with the dragon cavalry in S5, as the dragonhorses looked pretty stupid just standing there without riders on them.

As for undead creatures, what if we had a necromancer SOD? So instead of Cornelio with his band of doremi elves, we have someone who resurrects skeletons, ghosts, maybe demon hounds who are non-SODs. you could probably do something similar with a beast commander and animal characters. Or a snake charmer who gathers snakes.

I liked the banshees in S1 - they were piss weak, but I liked their design with the blue flaming hair and misty bodies and shriek attack that inflicts status effects, so a banshee in my party would be cool.

Of course, all of these ideas needn't be stuffed into one game because then it really would be ridiculous!

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Neclord X
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Neclord X » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:14 am

AlOnZo wrote:How about throwing some Mermen in the mix?


Hell no, that would kill all the fantasies about mermaids puting eggs on your stomach :D

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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby suiken » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:47 pm

I mentioned it in my thread already. Eaglemen. Only if the settings is a high-altitude area.

Having axe-rabbits or holly boys in my party would be cool.

How many races we have so far?

- Humans
- Elves
- Dwarves (Norse type)
- Kobolds
- Wingers
- Lizardmen
- Ducks
- Mermaids
- Beavers
- Nay-Kobolds
- Dwarves (Gnome Types)


Compare them to Warcraft races:

- Humans
- Blood Elves
- Night Elves
- Dwarves
- Orcs
- Centaur
- Naga
- Pandaren
- Trolls
- Taurens
- Goblins
- Undeads
- Satyr
- Kobolds
- Demons

And they are only fraction of the whole races.

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Neclord X
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Neclord X » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:31 am

There is also Vampires and Lycanthropes.

There were also orcs in Suikoden I BTW, even if they weren't avaliable as part of the party. And there are undead too that are not playable, not talking only about the enemies, in SI there was a friendly undead in Neclord's castle that speaks to you.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:32 am

Again, we don't want to see new races added just for the hell of it. Better to see existing races return in different environments, with different character types. If we just get races that appear in one game and never show up in any other games, they end up feeling disconnected from the rest of the series, like they shouldn't even be there.

I thought the orcs were interesting in Skyrim because they weren't just presented as an evil race of darkness like in most fantasies, they were presented as a hardy tribal race, similar to Nords, but they lived in separate strongholds scattered throughout the realm, and not all orcs we met were big badass barbarians. There was an orc scholar at the mage college, and even an orc bard living in one of the towns, and orc miners and woodcutters living and working alongside humans.

what they did not need to do in Skyrim was create an entire DLC based on vampires and vampire hunters waging their own war that ends up completely overshadowing everything else that's going on Skyrim, like the civil war situation and the return of the dragons. Dawnguard was unforgivably bad, in my opinion.

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:50 am

To be honest I am sick and tired of the Tolkien approach to fantasy races. The Tolkien style of fantasy has been milked dry by now. I would embrace any kind of fantasy settings that doesn't base itself on nordic mythology or interpret it in another way.

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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby Wolkendrache » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:52 pm

suiken wrote:Compare them to Warcraft races

Why? I mean you can make comparisons with everything: Warcraft, Harry Potter, whatever you want. Why did you compare it to Warcraft? Or more precisely: Why do you want Blood Elves and Demons as playable races in Suikoden? If my assumption is wrong (you don’t want to include them), then what’s the point of your listing, what do you want to tell us with this?
sticky-runes wrote:Again, we don't want to see new races added just for the hell of it. Better to see existing races return in different environments, with different character types. If we just get races that appear in one game and never show up in any other games, they end up feeling disconnected from the rest of the series, like they shouldn't even be there.

If a new race is introduced in the northern continent you’ll indeed ask yourself why it didn’t appear in other games. If S6 takes place on the northern continent, I’d prefer another winger tribe, more kobolds and elves. If it takes place in New Armes, maybe a new race related to desert, and respective monsters would be nice. On a different continent (western or eastern), new races and monsters wouldn’t be amiss imo (you could still include some elves or so).
BrucePrintscreen wrote:To be honest I am sick and tired of the Tolkien approach to fantasy races. The Tolkien style of fantasy has been milked dry by now. I would embrace any kind of fantasy settings that doesn't base itself on nordic mythology or interpret it in another way.

You’re talking about suiken’s warcraft list? Half of it is not created by Tolkien and not even based on it. Anyway, Suikoden has only introduced some Tolkien species in the first game: Elves, Dwarves, Orcs. After that, Suikoden apparently stopped adopting stuff from Tolkien (Shiro made me think of Huan from Silmarillion though). I think there’s no need to worry Suikoden would ever focus too much on one particular mythology. I think the reason why people come up with Tolkien or partly Tolkien-based stuff for comparison is that they’re probably more familiar with it than with other mythologies. Any suggestions are welcome… what are your (concrete) suggestions for humanoids and fellow monsters, anyway?
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:00 pm

Well, why not seeking inspiration in other mythologies? Slavic mythology is extremely rich, why not a Babayaga for example, and I'm not even talking about Assyrian and Persian stuff. A manticore would be awesome. Sphinxes, centaurs... Plenty of possibilities.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:09 pm

There are centaurs or centaur-like beings that appear when we use the Blue Gate rune (and sometimes as bosses I think?) but they always strike me as being otherworldly monsters in the Suikoverse.

Other Greek monsters such as Minotaurs and harpies and Sirens have always appeared as bosses or random monsters, so they would probably work better as one-off beasts like Feather and Siegfried etc. instead of tribes/factions.

suiken
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Re: Humanoids and fellow monsters in SVI

Postby suiken » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:25 pm

Wolkendrache wrote:
suiken wrote:Compare them to Warcraft races

Why? I mean you can make comparisons with everything: Warcraft, Harry Potter, whatever you want. Why did you compare it to Warcraft? Or more precisely: Why do you want Blood Elves and Demons as playable races in Suikoden? If my assumption is wrong (you don’t want to include them), then what’s the point of your listing, what do you want to tell us with this?


Simple. Everyone here is complaining that Suikoden have too many races already so I compared it to warcraft. I never said I wanted Blood Elves or Night Elves in my Suikoden game.Just a normal elves is enough. A demon can be acceptable if presented neatly. You guys went hyperbole when I just wanted a single or two more races.

But some of guys here wanted some human diversion. What else you wanted to see there? We already have black, yellow, red and white skinned humans out there. If you mean culture based, we already got that covered. From oriental, middle-eastern or even european/


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