Harmonia, ideas.

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bluemask
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Harmonia, ideas.

Postby bluemask » Wed May 07, 2014 9:51 am

I just realized that Harmonia is seemingly "Christianity-inspired". So what if, there was like, an inner-circle of mages/elites which Sasarai leads and calls themselves, "The Holy Saints of Harmonia" or something? Also a circle of warrior-type/knights which can be called as "The Holy Crusaders of Harmonia" which are considered the generals just like in the Scarlet Moon Empire. Pretty generic, I know. I think a story inspired by middle ages can be a good starting point.

I don't know much about Crystal Valley but there could be a separate community (inspired by the Temple Faction and People Faction in Suikogaiden) wherein those within the Holy Kingdom is only allowed to use "White or Pure Magic" such as Earth, Wind and Water runes. And those opposing are dubbed "The Dark Practitioners/Witches" who uses "Dark Magic" such as Fire and Lightning, maybe some Dark Elemental Runes as well. Those who are caught using the Dark Magic are imprisoned to a Dungeon within the Crystal Palace for "cleansing". Cleansing is having a visit by Hikusaak whom the people seem to be really afraid of because nobody has ever seen him aside from Sasarai.

There setting can be the same as Rome or similar.There's a Coliseum as well just like in Stormfist but instead of Gladiator Battles, the center of the games are chivalry (knights fighting while riding a horse).

Then the Howling Voice Guild which is a neutral party (I've read they're employed by the higher-ups to assassinate people from those opposing the politicians).

Just some flow of random thoughts...

tovath
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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby tovath » Sat May 24, 2014 9:57 am

Well Harmonia does have have a monotheistic religion so it is going to seem like Christianity rather or not the creator intended it.

As for time period comparison the early modern period is closer to the period that the Suikoden world is in.
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bluemask
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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby bluemask » Sat May 24, 2014 2:45 pm

Actually, I only associated Christianity with Sasarai being called "bishop" and Harmonia being called, "The Holy Kingdom". I'm not really familiar if there are other religions calling higher-ranked priests as bishop though.

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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Jack of All Trades » Sat May 24, 2014 3:02 pm

I know they are called the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia but how exactly are they shown to be so in game? They make no references to god. It can be inferred that they worship the Circle Rune. However, they acknowledge that the other True Runes exist, so they must be polytheistic. Think about ancient Athens. Athena is clearly their god of choice but does that make them monotheistic?

Psst. The answer is no it does not.

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Pyriel
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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Pyriel » Sat May 24, 2014 4:24 pm

It sort of depends. They could view the Circle Rune, or some other entity, as the highest order, and view all or the remainder of the True Runes as more like demiurges, a chorus of angels and demons, or like a disorganized rabble of nature spirits. Supposedly all of creation arose when darkness shed a tear, so maybe they worship the original void. Or they regard the void as primordial and lacking consciousness, and instead worship the tear as the first actively creative force. The mythology of the Runes only says that Tear gave birth to Sword and Shield. Maybe that means it split into them, or maybe it means Tear created its own children, and watched in horror as they warred.

The answer is, we don't know.

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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Wolkendrache » Sat May 24, 2014 4:58 pm

Isn't it time for a little decline in Harmonia, so bishops would send out some knights to recapture some of their ancient holy sites such as Gregminster? These crusades could be led by Thomas, Guillaume, Isaac (Izak), Frederick (Fred), Nicholas, and Jacques (these are names of Christian crusaders); joined by Arthur, Percival, Bors (Borus), Elaine, and Gareth (names in the Arthurian legend). But this would be more of a Genso Crusades than Genso Suikoden...
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tovath
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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby tovath » Sat May 24, 2014 8:53 pm

Actully, I believe that, they worship Hikusaak as the One True Hero

Wolkendrache cute idea, but I don't think that any of those characters would be interested in going on quests for the glory of Harmonia. Besides that would be the wrong time period. What should happen to Harmonia is the same thing that happened to Constantinople in our world. Collapse so that the world can progress.
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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby bluemask » Sun May 25, 2014 1:57 am

I think Hikusaak is just like a "pope" or something of the same category. But I cannot say for sure as long as there's no concrete evidence :(

I think they still worship something greater as Pyriel has mentioned, the "Tear".

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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Jack of All Trades » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:21 pm

Hikusaak is the High Priest and not the subject of worship. His Theocracy is the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia. As a Theocracy it's religion and government are one and the same. So it's national flag, the circle rune, is not just a symbol of government but religion as well.

Based on the information we have, it's safe to say they worship the rune.

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Pyriel
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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Pyriel » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:09 am

Or it's a symbol. Depends on what you mean by, "safe", I guess. It's not unreasonable to assume that they worship the Circle Rune, but it's just one of many reasonable choices without Konami actually telling the story.

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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Jack of All Trades » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:14 am

Yeah, that's basically what I meant. Probably the most reasonable based on the evidence we have. That evidence again is that the national flag is the circle rune and their headquarters is the circle palace.

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Pyriel
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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Pyriel » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:53 am

Well, having a symbol that manages to pervade a culture doesn't necessarily mean it's worshiped, or the primary focus of a religion. All Israel needs to do is build a facility in the shape of the Star of David and they'd get pretty close to your threshold for worshiping the Star. However, since the Circle Rune is an actual object with incredible magical powers, it's somewhat more likely to be an object of worship than something like the cross that's merely a symbol.

I won't bother pulling percentages out of my ass. The likelihood that the Circle Rune is central to their religion is pretty good. I just wouldn't marry myself to the idea based on what we have. All you need is a story to include a prayer that alludes to Hikusaak's divinity, and Tovath's theory might overtake yours by a nose. Mine were just pure speculation, made for the purpose of casting doubt. I wouldn't be completely shocked if one of them panned out, but there's no direct evidence at all for them.

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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Jack of All Trades » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 am

I completely agree with you. All I'm saying is that based on the evidence we have. The figure of worship could just as likely be the Rune's previous bearer who handed it down to the Hikusaak as he attained true godhood. However, as no such character or being has been mentioned we should probably go on what we have.

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Pyriel
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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Pyriel » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:01 pm

I'm operating somewhat under the assumption that this is something you intend to put into your game, but I may have your work confused with the Suikoden 2.5 guy. One or both games intends to feature Harmonia prominently, and I know someone from both "groups" (scare quotes because 2.5 is probably one guy who thinks he's seven) have expressed the hope that Konami might like their stuff so much that it becomes official. Because of all that, I'm probably picturing you as more strident about it than you really are, especially if your game doesn't involve Harmonia's religion.

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Re: Harmonia, ideas.

Postby Jack of All Trades » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:21 pm

You probably are considering me as more strident than I really am. I've considered that my opinions may be biased because of the setting we are using but they are not. Just like with my writing my conclusions are based on fact not fanboyism. I also could really care less about the potential official-ness of my work. I don't try to take myself to seriously. I know that Konami isn't going to give two poops about what we make.

We are using Harmonia and I do have the national religion as the worship of the circle rune, but that's only because I couldn't find anything more canon than that idea.We are very different from Suikoden 2.5. We are working on the script right now. We have the entire story outlined though. It's coming along nicely. We aren't trying to rush through it.


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