Issues that needs to be address on the next game

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EstrangedIX
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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby EstrangedIX » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:03 pm

V didn't have terrible graphics, but that god awful camera keeps you from enjoying them. IV had the right idea there. I used to be a staunch advocate for 2D, but when I go back to those games I wish I could actually walk around in them like in III and IV.

I feel like the encounter rate was worse at times in V than IV. Looking for Urda and going through the shipwrecks with Nelis and Yahr come to mind. You can't take two steps without a fight. I like grinding but that was crazy.

I'm probably the only one who feels this way, but going back to turn based war battles would make me happy. I felt like having them be real time just added unnecessary tedium instead of enjoyment. Maybe I wouldn't have minded if they were scaled out like in II. The duels were good and the formation system wasn't bad since it gave sensible bonuses. I liked how III handled party battles a little more, but I know I'm the only one in the entire universe who liked the buddy system so whatever lol
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Antimatzist
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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:11 pm

sticky-runes wrote:There's a 5th Breath of Fire game??

Cannot really tell if you really don't know it or if this is trolling of a BoF V hater...

I don't really know in which direction war battles should go. I think the turn based battles are a bit too static, but V was too hectic. But what lies in the middle?^^

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sticky-runes
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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:01 pm

Antimatzist wrote:
sticky-runes wrote:There's a 5th Breath of Fire game??

Cannot really tell if you really don't know it or if this is trolling of a BoF V hater...



Did you mean Dragon Quarter? Because I haven't played that one yet.

And no, I wasn't trolling, I was genuinely curious. I'm not into the "this game didn't live up to my expectations, so I'll pretend it doesn't exist" attitude. I'm a Suikoden 4 lover, FFS.

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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:27 pm

Yeah, Dragon Quarter. Ok, it's hard to tell, because it seems that 90% of the BoF fanbase hates the game so much that they won't even acknowledge that it's a BoF.. and the rest thinks it's the best. I'm part of the latter group.^^

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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby LanceHeart » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:27 pm

suiken wrote:We are not talking about the PS1 titles. I'm talking about the graphics of V which was bad compared to the graphics of IV.

The only way to force Konami in reviving the series is to make the JRPG dominant in the market again which is kinda impossible at the moment. But hey, Ni No Kuni set new standards for modern JRPG's. I bet the Suikoden team suffered from the lack of budget thus, unable to made it graphically pretty. I also believe that Konami pulled a Squaresoft on this one when they took the budget of Xenogears and transfer it to FFVII.

Suikoden didn't sell well not because it sucks. It have something to do with bad marketing. Releasing the game a week before Kingdom Heart 2 which was the most anticipated game at that time hurt SV. The bad reception of SIV didn't help either because that installment turned off some old and new fans alike. I bet that if Suikoden was advertised properly, this series would already have the stardom status like the FF series received.

Nothing of what you said convinced me that Konami should actually keep trying with Suikoden. For a series that went downhill extremely quickly in terms of sales, I don't think anyone in their right mind would OK the creation of a 3D modeled HD JRPG with the goal of matching the graphical detail of FFXIII, especially when the PS4/Durango are on the horizon and Square Enix is already showing off an even *more* detailed 3D engine. The FOX Engine might be a solution, but Kojima has a monopoly on its use. That leaves Konami's lackluster internal dev team, who haven't worked directly on high profile HD games since the beginning of the PS3/360/Wii generation. Even if you gave them funds, their skill level would still yield middling results.

The only way any of this could work would be through the use of external studios. Considering what happened with Vandal Hearts: Flames of Judgment, I'm less than enthusiastic about any such handoff of the franchise.

That's not to say that I even care about another 3D Suikoden, because I still find all of them inferior in charm and fluidity compared to the 2D ones (yes, even Suikogaiden and Card Stories had that charm). Tierkreis could have benefited immensely from being 2D, considering how the DS is about of equal power to the PSOne.
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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:16 am

EstrangedIX wrote:I'm probably the only one who feels this way, but going back to turn based war battles would make me happy. I felt like having them be real time just added unnecessary tedium instead of enjoyment. Maybe I wouldn't have minded if they were scaled out like in II. The duels were good and the formation system wasn't bad since it gave sensible bonuses. I liked how III handled party battles a little more, but I know I'm the only one in the entire universe who liked the buddy system so whatever lol


The bad thing about S2's war battles is that they're mostly scripted. It doesn't matter if all your units just used Wait all the freaking time, the war battle will end after a certain number of turns anyway. I say I would prefer giving the player some specific goals to do in each war battle (such as "defeat the enemy's main unit", "reach the enemy's base", etc.) and then mixing S2's system with S3's, where each unit is composed of a party of 6. That way, you will be using everyone since levels would be important. Grinding is never a problem in Suikoden anyway since under leveled guys can easily catch up as long as you keep them alive.
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suiken
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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby suiken » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:49 am

LanceHeart wrote:Nothing of what you said convinced me that Konami should actually keep trying with Suikoden. For a series that went downhill extremely quickly in terms of sales, I don't think anyone in their right mind would OK the creation of a 3D modeled HD JRPG with the goal of matching the graphical detail of FFXIII, especially when the PS4/Durango are on the horizon and Square Enix is already showing off an even *more* detailed 3D engine. The FOX Engine might be a solution, but Kojima has a monopoly on its use. That leaves Konami's lackluster internal dev team, who haven't worked directly on high profile HD games since the beginning of the PS3/360/Wii generation. Even if you gave them funds, their skill level would still yield middling results.

The only way any of this could work would be through the use of external studios. Considering what happened with Vandal Hearts: Flames of Judgment, I'm less than enthusiastic about any such handoff of the franchise.

That's not to say that I even care about another 3D Suikoden, because I still find all of them inferior in charm and fluidity compared to the 2D ones (yes, even Suikogaiden and Card Stories had that charm). Tierkreis could have benefited immensely from being 2D, considering how the DS is about of equal power to the PSOne.


I don't mind Kojima supervising the new Suikoden team (if there is any). Look what he did to the new Castlevania. He made the franchise being respectable again somehow with Iga's mess. If the Suikoden team manage to acquire a good engine, then I believe it's worth a shot. I don't believe Persona 2 was big enough in the US during it's release to warrant a sequel after long hiatus of the series. And look what happened. They made a glorious return and currently one of the best JRPG's this generation.

They don't even need to match Square's crystal engine or their new ps4 engine. An engine similar to Ni No Kuni or even the modern Tales series would do fine for this series. They need just to maintain the 2D looks of this series. I see a 3d graphics with a 2d aura would fit the Suikoden series. Realistic life-like graphics won't do. Even if the graphics aren't that spectacular, at least make it respectable for this current gen like the high resolution sprites of Blazeblue or King of Fighters XII. And maybe a fully animated scenes would cover up for graphics.

What I'm afraid if Kojima took over the production are the scripts. That might result into a game with 30% gameplay, 70% conversations like the Metal Gear series. His script writing is great but the gameplay might get hurt in the process. But then again, Lords of Shadows are action-packed and not much of a conversation compared to MGS series. So I guess there is nothing much to be afraid of.

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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby LanceHeart » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:05 am

It's safe to say that Kojima will never touch Suikoden, especially since he doesn't want to go back to Boktai and Solar Knights. His obsession with progressing Metal Gear makes him very unreliable when it comes to any other Konami project. You'll remember that he was only a slight contributor to Castlevania: Lord of Shadow, which was mostly outsourced.

As for matching Ni No Kuni or Tales, that still requires actually having talent; Talent I haven't seen from Konami's internal dev teams in a long time. They'd need to hire Level-5 if they wanted to actually use a decent engine. As for 2D sprites, I already mentioned elsewhere that HD sprites are immeasurably expensive to make if you don't want them to look crappy.

I'd love for Konami to fix their graphical gap, but I realistically don't think they're even close to having the motivation nor the money to do so.
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Neclord X
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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby Neclord X » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:33 am

Antimatzist wrote:Maybe they should just drop the random encounters and let you see the enemies on the map.


Please, not that. I really miss random the thrilling filling of random encounters I wouldn't like to see other series that goes monster-on-map.

suiken
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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby suiken » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:44 am

Neclord X wrote:
Antimatzist wrote:Maybe they should just drop the random encounters and let you see the enemies on the map.


Please, not that. I really miss random the thrilling filling of random encounters I wouldn't like to see other series that goes monster-on-map.


You didn't enjoy the original grandia?

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Neclord X
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Re: Issues that needs to be address on the next game

Postby Neclord X » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:22 am

suiken wrote:
Neclord X wrote:
Antimatzist wrote:Maybe they should just drop the random encounters and let you see the enemies on the map.


Please, not that. I really miss random the thrilling filling of random encounters I wouldn't like to see other series that goes monster-on-map.


You didn't enjoy the original grandia?


Yes, I did, when I was tired of random encounters, now I'm tired of monsters on map, thats why I want random encounters back. :o


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