No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

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sticky-runes
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No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:20 pm

On the off-chance that we do get a future suikoden game, I'd like to put at the top of my wish list in big bold capital letters with lines underneath that we never, ever have to do any trading. I was not happy about trading posts being added in Suikoden 2, and they've been included in every suikoden game ever since then (except tactics, thank the gods)

I've never enjoyed trading. It's just menial work that the leader of an army should not have to screw around with. OK sure, we get other services like blacksmiths and armourers and rune masters, and realistically a leader should not have to individually dress each of his warriors and sharpen their weapons and organise their magic abilities, but these things are actually enjoyable to do in RPGs, so keep them in. But going back and forth to each town to trade statues, salt, soy sauce, mayonnaise and candles to help fund your army is not fun. I don't want to waste my time in markets when I could be getting on with the story or travelling on a new quest. If I want to take a break from the main story and fighting, there's already the option to play bonus games - oh, but I don't get around to gambling, because I'm wasting my time and energy abusing Viki to shift me back and forth between trading posts. FFS!

If they must keep trading in the game, I think they should allow us to despatch a merchant character to head out to towns and trade items for us, that way we can have an automated income. Heck, give us several recruitable merchants. Maybe we could have a budget set aside for trading and decide the limit, and we decide what items the merchant should buy and sell from town to town, he goes out and does his rounds, then returns to base and yay - we get a nice wad of cash to spend!

Anyone agree?

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Aerolithe Lion
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby Aerolithe Lion » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:23 pm

I don't necessarily agree, even though I've never done it. It's an entirely optional part of the game. Some people like it, and it is a unique staple of this franchise. You don't ever HAVE to do it

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Pyriel
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby Pyriel » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:55 pm

It's not entirely optional, since there are usually recruits that require you to earn some arbitrary amount of gold trading, or to fulfill some obscure goal(s) by buying and selling in particular circumstances. If you know it's coming ahead of time, you can game the system a bit, but it can be an annoying brick wall to hit at times. I don't really remember what you could do for money in 4 and 5, but if they're without bugs or exploitable mini-games, trading might be the easiest way to earn money by orders of magnitude. If that's the case, even excluding recruit prerequisites, it's still in that weird, "optional, but you're totally hamstringing yourself" category.

It's usually pretty boring. You just jump from city to city, or worse, walk between them, and open different menus to move around things that are somehow even less real than your windspun armor. It's nothing but a Keynesian fetch quest. I don't really care if it's in or not, as long as it's strictly optional aside from the one or two per game recruits that depend on it. I'd rather the conditions for those make sense, though. As I recall, it was pretty tough for people to recruit the trader in 5 without consulting a guide. He was asking you to manipulate prices by hording and dumping goods, but since the thresholds are based on nothing but people's intuitive love for certain numbers, it's just guesswork to figure out whether you need to dump 7 salts, or 10, or 14 to knock the price down to the level he wanted.

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Aerolithe Lion
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby Aerolithe Lion » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:02 pm

I meant optional as far as beating the game. And I did like the system in IV where you had to trade to improve your gear, but that was negated by the fact no gear you made was unique by the end of the game.

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veriaqa
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby veriaqa » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:57 pm

sticky-runes wrote:On the off-chance that we do get a future suikoden game, I'd like to put at the top of my wish list in big bold capital letters with lines underneath that we never, ever have to do any trading. I was not happy about trading posts being added in Suikoden 2, and they've been included in every suikoden game ever since then (except tactics, thank the gods)

I've never enjoyed trading. It's just menial work that the leader of an army should not have to screw around with. OK sure, we get other services like blacksmiths and armourers and rune masters, and realistically a leader should not have to individually dress each of his warriors and sharpen their weapons and organise their magic abilities, but these things are actually enjoyable to do in RPGs, so keep them in. But going back and forth to each town to trade statues, salt, soy sauce, mayonnaise and candles to help fund your army is not fun. I don't want to waste my time in markets when I could be getting on with the story or travelling on a new quest. If I want to take a break from the main story and fighting, there's already the option to play bonus games - oh, but I don't get around to gambling, because I'm wasting my time and energy abusing Viki to shift me back and forth between trading posts. FFS!

If they must keep trading in the game, I think they should allow us to despatch a merchant character to head out to towns and trade items for us, that way we can have an automated income. Heck, give us several recruitable merchants. Maybe we could have a budget set aside for trading and decide the limit, and we decide what items the merchant should buy and sell from town to town, he goes out and does his rounds, then returns to base and yay - we get a nice wad of cash to spend!

Anyone agree?


Well, if you dont like it no one force you to do trading. Just ignore it. For the matter you cant collect all the stars that would be your consequence for choosing to not play it.

If you dont like something and then you force everyone to stop play it by asking it to be removed and then you are an selfish prick.
I've came with an army who loves death like Yours loves live.

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Aerolithe Lion
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby Aerolithe Lion » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:37 pm

This guy is setting Suikosource on fire tonight

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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby Nikisaur » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:10 pm

I never minded the whole trading dealie. I thought (esecially in Suikoden 2), it added to the unity of the region, with all of the City States relying on each other through trade. It seems natural that demand would be higher for some products in certain places, while they're really cheap in others.

It was also an easy way to make money. but if you don't like it as a system, you only need to do a little to get Gordon anyway :)
The only thing Suikoden lacks...is dinosaurs.

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sticky-runes
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:43 am

I may have got over-angsty with my original post, so if I offended anyone's personal enjoyment of the games, sorry.

I actually did start to enjoy trading in S2 for a while, but then towards the end, I was like "F this, lets just stick to killing the rich monsters in the later areas"
In S3, I did for a little while, then got fed up with it.
In S4 I only used trading to get materials.
In S5, I used action replay to get loads of money. Mainly because it annoyed me how every single character you recruit has their weapon at level 1.

Then there's Tierkreis where you don't get any money from killing monsters, you either get money from treasure chests, selling old weapons and gear, I think you could get money from doing those mini quests? and - shudder - trading. when you don't get cash from monster encounters, it feels incredibly restricted, and actually felt like the game was pushing me to use trading posts, so that's probably what's triggered my outburst.

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bluemask
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby bluemask » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:25 am

Well trading is quite fun if you look at it the other way, apparently I only learned how trading actually works when I played S4 lol. Suikoden II's trading system is the same with 4 only poorly executed. Well, they could replace another system which is a lot easier to understand. You just have to learn which trader sells what and learn which has the higher price.

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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby Sasarai10 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:56 pm

Look trading is useful,early in the game...but after some point of the game,when the monstes will drop over 5k potch,then trading fades away.

Personaly i prefered making money via mini-games (especially in 4) or selling objects and armour that i didn't need anymore.

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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:14 pm

I don't like trading, too. I think Tierkreis made a mistake when they made it arbitrary. I already hated that in FF XII, I hate it now, still.

They need to rework it somehow, making it more of a sim-minigame than a "buy and sell" thing. Like you recruit the merchant and he's really poor and you can help him building up his business. When he's at his richets, you get an extra scene or something.
If they don't change it they should drop the system altogether.

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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby hotspot » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:49 am

I'm not a big fan of trading either, but I don't think taking it out completely would be really good, as it brings something that other games don't have. Just as long as you don't have to recruit someone using it (Gordon)
I thought using the trading system as a form of making money in Tierkreis was a cool idea, and more realistic... the Suikoden games always have a good amount of realism and surrealism. If monsters were real, they probably wouldn't have money, why would they? It wouldn't make sense, which is why I like it when games like Final Fantasy XII and Tierkreis have an alternative money making way because it actually makes much more sense to sell the items you obtain when defeating foes.
You won't see a creeper in town with a job and asking to buy some medicine's with his 500 potch he just earned for a hard day of work...
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sticky-runes
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:25 am

hotspot wrote:I'm not a big fan of trading either, but I don't think taking it out completely would be really good, as it brings something that other games don't have. Just as long as you don't have to recruit someone using it (Gordon)
I thought using the trading system as a form of making money in Tierkreis was a cool idea, and more realistic... the Suikoden games always have a good amount of realism and surrealism. If monsters were real, they probably wouldn't have money, why would they? It wouldn't make sense, which is why I like it when games like Final Fantasy XII and Tierkreis have an alternative money making way because it actually makes much more sense to sell the items you obtain when defeating foes.
You won't see a creeper in town with a job and asking to buy some medicine's with his 500 potch he just earned for a hard day of work...


I get what you're saying here, but it's always been convenient that we got money from random encounters. Or, they could just restrict it to human enemies like soldiers and bandits having money, and monsters having materials like horns and scales (kinda like what happens in Skyrim). I actually think it was better in Suikoden 4 when we used monster remains to make unique types of armour, rather than using them as trading goods.

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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby bluemask » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:06 am

sticky-runes wrote:
hotspot wrote:I'm not a big fan of trading either, but I don't think taking it out completely would be really good, as it brings something that other games don't have. Just as long as you don't have to recruit someone using it (Gordon)
I thought using the trading system as a form of making money in Tierkreis was a cool idea, and more realistic... the Suikoden games always have a good amount of realism and surrealism. If monsters were real, they probably wouldn't have money, why would they? It wouldn't make sense, which is why I like it when games like Final Fantasy XII and Tierkreis have an alternative money making way because it actually makes much more sense to sell the items you obtain when defeating foes.
You won't see a creeper in town with a job and asking to buy some medicine's with his 500 potch he just earned for a hard day of work...


I get what you're saying here, but it's always been convenient that we got money from random encounters. Or, they could just restrict it to human enemies like soldiers and bandits having money, and monsters having materials like horns and scales (kinda like what happens in Skyrim). I actually think it was better in Suikoden 4 when we used monster remains to make unique types of armour, rather than using them as trading goods.

Way to bring in Skyrim lol (I love that game too!).
Oh yes I totally forgot about the unique armor types! Man that was one cool thing I liked in S4. Maybe this should have been retained in 5 as I think, it's quite fun and trading could have had a bigger reason to be useful rather than the stupid method in S2 and 3. Another reason Suikoden has this trading fad going, I think it alludes to the fact that Suikoden seemed to have taken place in some Chinese-like era/period wherein Trading is the best way to earn profit.

Although, I think they should replace the system all-over with a lot easier to understand method and should have a reason to make the player to keep coming back just like in S4.

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sticky-runes
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Re: No more trading in suikoden games. EVER.

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:03 pm

Oh, I love me some Skyrim (making money from selling items really is a bitch in that game, by the way)

I think for scenic reasons, trading posts are a nice feature, as the towns and villages would have markets to help them prosper and stuff. But in response to my anti-trading topic, it strikes me that people aren't particularly bothered if trading posts remain a gaming feature or not. So... either do away with it or improve it somehow, thats what I think!


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