Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

A place to post news and also give your ideas about the future of the Suikoden series.
Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
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Lemmy Claypool
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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Lemmy Claypool » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:42 am

LanceHeart wrote:
Lemmy Claypool wrote:Jason has a serious Suikoboner. I had a brief chat with him on Twitter the other day and he seems keen to bring as much attention to the series as possible.

Isn't Kotaku still essentially banned from dealing with Konami in Japan? Did they ever fix their relationship post-MGS4 Famitsu fiasco?

That's pretty much why I haven't really paid much attention to Kotaku on anything that involves them and Konami. Count Destructoid out too, since Jim Sterling got himself banned from their presence as well by criticizing Konami's mishandling of their video game business.

I honestly don't know mate I wasn't aware of that, I've only really been following Kotaku for about a year now. Jason still seems to manage to slip a Suikoden mention into near enough every Random Encounters article at least, and checking the comments sections I often see people asking about it, who are intrigued to get into it. So there's a sure market for a PSN rerelease of II right there.

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby LanceHeart » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:18 pm

There's definitely a market for Suikoden II. The first game has over 2500 reviews on the North American PSN and you actually need to have purchased the game to review it.

As for Kotaku, here's what happened: They got banned when they openly criticized Metal Gear Solid 4 getting a 40/40 score on Famitsu when it had a ton of ads in that very same issue of the magazine. I don't know if they've been unbanned, which is why I appreciate Jason constantly mentioning or slipping references to Suikoden in his articles (any of them, including news he posts), but I don't see him actually being heard or even noticed by Konami based on that history between them and the site.
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Lemmy Claypool
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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Lemmy Claypool » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:27 am

I see. At least his constant mentioning of it will it bring it to the attention of his readership, even if Kotaku as an entity aren't allowed to talk to them ha. The fact that he rates it so highly will resonate with the readers too, as he obviously loves JRPGs and presumably so does everybody reading his column.

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Ernst
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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Ernst » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:56 am

Let's be honest. Konami are making it as clear as day that they just do not care. They've taken a strategy of no innovation to deal with the recession: buckle down on our core franchises and batten the hatches. Of course, this is hugely damaging in the long run, because it concludes with them stuck with a dwindling presence and few releases. I want you guys to keep going at it, but I think we need to be honest with ourselves, too. Until there is a shift in strategy, or likely more necessary, a change in management, it's highly unlikely things will change.

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby KC_MCDOHL » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:54 am

Yup, I totaly agree with you Ernst. But I think that gives us all the more reason to try and change things. To fight on. It may be one hell of a mountain but I wont give up easily.

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Makonuchi » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:15 pm

Suikoden is dead, deal with it. Konami is gradually losing its market and I would not be suprised if one day they would just flat out go bankrupt. They are losing the PES vs. FIFA battle two years now... You can't keepn on making MGS games forever and even if they did i highly doubt it would sell well if they ever release one 10 years from now.

Unfortunatley, gone is the days when Konami acutally listend to its fans. Innovation is non-existant. Marketing is piss poor. The only reason why they still have mgs is because it is developed by a third party who also helps in marketing mgs.

My Source tells me that murayama left because he know the franchise was going nowehre when he realized Konami plans. He was RIGHT.

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby KC_MCDOHL » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:23 pm

Well, you can deal with it that way if you want. But its not my way of thinking. Although, I agree with some of the rest of your post.

I would be interested in finding out who your source is though (in regards to Murayama)? Is this something you could perhaps share?
Last edited by KC_MCDOHL on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Makonuchi » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:31 pm

Cant really name you the guy since he is currently an employee. I would have to say though, he is not from managment..So perhaps he heard this from rumors inside the company.

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Xelinis » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:45 pm

Makonuchi wrote:My Source tells me that murayama left because he know the franchise was going nowehre when he realized Konami plans. He was RIGHT.


Except that:

1. Murayama himself confirmed that Konami was ready to allow him a large degree of freedom after the success of Suikoden II & III.

2. He also confirmed that he left on amicable terms, stating that he wanted to follow through with his oath that he would only spend 10 years there.

3. Komuta was the one who wanted to move away from the main world, and faced a lot of resistance from Konami's higher ups.

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Makonuchi » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:54 pm

i am fully aware what they told you.

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby LanceHeart » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:41 pm

Makonuchi wrote:Suikoden is dead, deal with it. Konami is gradually losing its market and I would not be suprised if one day they would just flat out go bankrupt. They are losing the PES vs. FIFA battle two years now... You can't keepn on making MGS games forever and even if they did i highly doubt it would sell well if they ever release one 10 years from now.

Unfortunatley, gone is the days when Konami acutally listend to its fans. Innovation is non-existant. Marketing is piss poor. The only reason why they still have mgs is because it is developed by a third party who also helps in marketing mgs.

I'll bite, if only because this post is horrendously wrong.

While Konami has neglected its console and handheld offerings, it has become the second biggest worldwide company in mobile gaming and remains a mainstay in gambling/luck games. I don't like that they're pulling out of "hardcore" games, but I'm not blind to their overall successes.

Also: Konami is still producing the latest MGS. Metal Gear Solid: Rising was cancelled, then resurrected as an outsourced Metal Gear Rising. Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeros is going to be the next "real" MGS game, made by Kojima's studio (a subsidiary of Konami).
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Makonuchi
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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Makonuchi » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:42 pm

LanceHeart wrote:
Makonuchi wrote:Suikoden is dead, deal with it. Konami is gradually losing its market and I would not be suprised if one day they would just flat out go bankrupt. They are losing the PES vs. FIFA battle two years now... You can't keepn on making MGS games forever and even if they did i highly doubt it would sell well if they ever release one 10 years from now.

Unfortunatley, gone is the days when Konami acutally listend to its fans. Innovation is non-existant. Marketing is piss poor. The only reason why they still have mgs is because it is developed by a third party who also helps in marketing mgs.

I'll bite, if only because this post is horrendously wrong.

While Konami has neglected its console and handheld offerings, it has become the second biggest worldwide company in mobile gaming and remains a mainstay in gambling/luck games. I don't like that they're pulling out of "hardcore" games, but I'm not blind to their overall successes.

Also: Konami is still producing the latest MGS. Metal Gear Solid: Rising was cancelled, then resurrected as an outsourced Metal Gear Rising. Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeros is going to be the next "real" MGS game, made by Kojima's studio (a subsidiary of Konami).


You obviously did not know what i mean when i i said konami cant be making mgs all the time. Rising was a big fail. I'll give you Ground zero since i am a huge fan and would probably be buying myslef...What happens after that though? revive snake again..lol.. While Mobile Marketing is an increasing market, it is not big enough to sustain future cost. They are doing fine on their other projects but they earn most of their buck in the video gaming industry. An 8-11 billion industry wont save your ass konami..Their recent increase in revenue is not fooling me either..

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:28 am

While Mobile Marketing is an increasing market, it is not big enough to sustain future cost.

Actually, yes. Developing Next-Gen-console games is expensive and if it flops, you lose a l,ote. mobile games and facebook games are cheaper and generate income over some time (with in-game markets etc). I don't know where yo get that but the mobile market may very well one of the most profitable things in the future.

btw Konami is bringing some (or at leats one) facebook game to the US, Dragon.. blabla, can't remember the name. So they are really trying to spread this worldwide.

But you are right in saying that they have strange marketing ideas, with only two really big franchises (MGS and PES; even though PES really seems to lose to FIFA) and maybe Castlevania as a third (even though they recent take on the series is weird).

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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby LanceHeart » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:33 am

Makonuchi wrote:You obviously did not know what i mean when i i said konami cant be making mgs all the time. Rising was a big fail. I'll give you Ground zero since i am a huge fan and would probably be buying myslef...What happens after that though? revive snake again..lol.. While Mobile Marketing is an increasing market, it is not big enough to sustain future cost. They are doing fine on their other projects but they earn most of their buck in the video gaming industry. An 8-11 billion industry wont save your ass konami..Their recent increase in revenue is not fooling me either..

Firstly: You don't know if Rising will fail. It's being made by Bayonetta's developer in a style that rivals it. With the humongous backlash that came from Bayonetta 2 being exclusive to the Wii U, that might have pushed Rising into the spot of surrogate B2 for 360 and PS3 owners. That's a non-negligible market of people who want the game.

Secondly: Konami might be outsourcing their games, but they're still making headway (amazingly) with Silent Hill and Castlevania. MGS is Konami's Final Fantasy, but they obviously have other franchises that are still major releases on consoles. To say that they're only doing Metal Gear stuff is funny, since the last numbered MGS game was released in 2008.

Thirdly: Mobile gaming is still expanding. From ports of PS2 era games (and earlier) to brand new social and mobile games in franchises, it could very well be the first place a new Suikoden title could pop up in the future. To ignore it because you're blindly loyal to consoles and portables is to ignore a platform that is poised to eventually be the next big player in the field. Mobile gaming has been around for well over a decade in Asia and Europe and is finally breaking heavily into the American market.

Finally: I can't figure out how you can say "their recent increase in revenue is not fooling me" when Konami hasn't even spread outside of Southeast Asia with mobile gaming yet. If they're successful in doing so, expect way more social and mobile games from them in the future.
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Re: Crowdfunding - a possible future for Suikoden?

Postby Exophase » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:34 pm

There have been some sentiments here that KS is just a way to get money for companies that don't have the money to invest themselves. That might be the extent of how it's usually used but in potential it's a lot more than that. It isn't just an investment, it's a sure thing that you'll get the money you need to make the game profitable. Close to zero risk. In the hit driven game market you won't get that very much, particularly with a Suikoden title, and Konami knows this.

The great thing about KS is that it gives more power to the serious supporters. In the current game industry the only thing that matters is whether or not you buy the game. It barely matters if the game registers as good, great, or best ever to you - all that really matters is if you make the purchase and if the quality of the game will influence you to make other purchases. These days it doesn't even really matter that much if the excellence of the game causes you to go on to all your friends about how awesome it is (which you probably won't do anyway if it's a niche game that's targeting your particular tastes) because they'll make their decisions based on what reviews and media tells them.

This causes game developers to play it safe with games, by selling sequels to games that were the most profitable and targeting as wide of a market demographic as possible. There's no real special consideration for a niche game with a hardcore fanbase. Those hardcore fans can still do little more than buy the games - no one's going to buy multiple copies of the game because there's no coordinated effort with other fans to show that your contribution isn't in vain (and no one wants to own several copies of one game). KS totally turns this on its side - a hardcore fanbase can be half the typical size but still fund just as well if they're willing to pay twice as much. I know that for a quality Suikoden game I'd be willing to pay a lot more than typical game price, if I saw that's what it took to make it happen - which is something KS will let you see.

Of course the project would have to divulge a lot of information and make some promises up front. But that's a given with anything on KS; Konami's trickle of vague data wouldn't cut it there. In this case I'm sure they'd have to at least say they'd make a genuine effort to continue the real story and setting established by the first five games and give some background information on the intended plot and gameplay details. The fanbase may be called finicky but I really don't think it takes a lot of information at all to give a good indication of whether or not the game is worth supporting. I'm sure it'd help if they said they'd be bringing back certain key developers who worked on previous titles.

But I don't think Konami would actually ever even consider this. For one thing, a failed KS does look legitimately bad, and is damaging to their IP - from their (IMO distorted) point of view the Suikoden name is valuable just by itself and they can slap it on top of anything even after a game flops and still milk extra sales out of it. But a failed KS is going to look like suicide for the brand. I also think they won't do it because they're just too proud and set in their ways, unwilling to try new approaches or do anything that suggests vulnerability.


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