A Thread to Discuss Our Grievances

[LanceHeart]

The reason why it's such a critical situation is because Konami had supposedly "lost" its RPG making knowledge and skill by disbanding its last remaining RPG team (Suikoden). That was the explanation for their collaboration with tri-Ace for Frontier Gate and Beyond the Labyrinth before Konami decided to rebuild the Suikoden team for the latest PSP release.

That doesn't mean they still have all of the original world's information, nor do they seem to point out if the Tierkreis world's info is still there either.

[luceys]

I don't think he is downplaying the role of marketing; rather the opposite. If they do a better job marketing at this point in time, it will be for these new games, which most of us wish they would stop making and return to the original series' concepts. In this way marketing is of the utmost importance...which is why he doesn't seem to want them to do a better job of it at this point, because if they do, it will be for games far-removed from the canon series. Better marketing will only lead to more iterations in the current direction. If they go back to the original storylines, more power to them! Market away, I say. As things stand, I find myself hoping they stay away from a huge marketing push of anything recent.

And I think he's right. A full-on marketing campaign would certainly help increase name recognition, but in the case of Suikoden the ends probably wouldn't justify the means (in Japan at least).

I agree that the spot they are in now sucks. But my point is that they wouldn't even BE in this spot if they had put some effort into marketing the original games that the core-base knows and loves. I didn't even know about the Suikoden series until at least 2 years after II's release... and even learning about the release of subsequent titles required some investigative effort on my part. And I was a pretty big RPG fan at that time.

And I don't see how marketing in Japan would not be worth it. You're talking about one of the most loyal fanbases for this type of RPG... not to mention Konami is BASED in Japan releasing the games on Sony consoles. This formula, backed by marketing efforts, has worked fabulously for countless Japanese RPG games, so I don't see how we could conclude a campaign in that market would be doomed for failure.

[Celedril]

A team disbanded can indeed be reformed...but will they? No...why would they, when things are going fine in this new direction? I really think they've accomplished their current goal, which is to make Suikoden more friendly to the general populace by stripping of the so-called weird elements that may have been too complex (like the vast interconnectedness of the rune stories or the mass tactical battles). I know it seems like a mountain out of a molehill. But is it? I don't think so. If they wanted to do anything related to the original series they could have with the PSP game. It would have been an incredible game if it would have simply taken place in the original world and with mass battles and all the other 'Suikoden' stuff.

I think these other iterations like Tierkris et al were meant to test the water, and they found the water nice and warm. Tepid, if you ask me, but oh well. Anyway, I want to be positive, but I just can't be.

I think the backlash was from the die-hard fans...but I also think that they don't care about us anymore. I think they want to use the name to get us to buy the game even as they broaden the fan base. Eventually, the new fan base won't know anything about the originals and we'll be danglers, ever waiting for a ship that won't come in.

That being said, I'd be willing to do whatever it is to help. You suggested there was a petition or something McDohl? I'd gladly participate in any such efforts.

As for marketing, I'm not saying it wouldn't be good. It would be. But only if it's marketing for those Suikoden games that are from the original series. That's my main point. If they continue on the current path with a bigger marketing push, you can kiss any return to the original series goodbye. Seriously, the problem is not how much die-hard fans love the game. It's simply the numbers. Previous games didn't sell like they wanted them to, so as I see it they are changing the game itself to try to keep the series alive by targeting a different demographic. Now, they may use this as a way to keep afloat until they can do something better, but again, then they run the risk of alienating all those new fans who will go, "what the heck happened to Suikoden? What are all these mass battles? What are these runes?" and they will not understand that the series has a long, fertile history that was tossed into the trash.

Sorry to be a party pooper but I'm a pessimist. And they've given me no reason not to be.

[KC_MCDOHL]

No, your quite right to express your opinions, Celedril, even if they are pessimistic.

I agree with most of what you say. But I, personally, would not be so sure of those views just yet. Although I do greatly fear, like all of us, that those/your views are correct. As I said before, maybe it is time to panic. But maybe it isnt. Its easy for us to get carried away here.

So until I know for a fact that there is no hope for the return of the old Suikoden ...then I will keep campaigning for a brighter future.

Well, its not a petition as such. There ARE petitions online for Konami to give us a Suikoden VI. Bt they tend to have little spotlight, not organised very well and/or run by obscure fans. Its maybe worth us taking them more serisouly though and spreading the word alot more? You can find them on Facebook.

What I have been aiming to do is establish a relationship with Konami. To make Konami realise that there is a strong and (hopefully) large Suikoden fanbase. If we can contact Konami and speak to them on a more constructive basis, then perhaps we can have a say in the future of the series and help steer Suikoden back on track.

This has proven to be rather difficult. Konami have a histroy of not wanting to reach fans on such a level. So one can only imagine how they will respond to the fanbase of one of their lesser known series.

Nevertheless, I have spoken to many employees (mostly of Konami America) and even some of the creative staff members of Konami Japan who helped create Suikoden. Who knows if what I have had to say has had any effect. I can only hope. Although I do think our initial campaigning spurned Konami into action to not drop the Suikoden series completely.

So, apart from me bombarding Konami with various emails, I only have a few options left that I will try until I start to run out of ideas. The important thing, I think, is not what I have to say to Konami as an individual. Rather, its what we have to say as a collective. If more and more people follow my example and Konami start to get a steady flow of emails and letters from many different people ...then surely that will speak louder to them than anything I have been reiterating to them over and over again for the past 18 months or so.

You can keep up to date with most of the campaigning, here:

http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 36&t=12219

I know its a big read but you dont exactly need to read it all in one sitting. It will let you know exactly where we stand with Konami at the present moment. As well as a good insight into what has been happening.


Also, the signature at the bottom of my posts is a collection of Konami addresses you can try emailing

[JiggleBiscuits]

A team disbanded can indeed be reformed...but will they? No...

I think, unfortunately, after a certain amount of time has passed it's nearly impossible to put a team back together because they've all moved on to different jobs.

Konami made the same exact mistake with Team Silent.

If they continue on the current path with a bigger marketing push, you can kiss any return to the original series goodbye.

Exactly. It is absolutely wrong to give Konami any support for these new games. It tells them the direction they're going in now is the correct one, when it is not.

They need to put Suikoden 2 on PSN so fans can play 1 & 2. Then put out an HD release of 3, 4 and 5 and allow the carry over data from S2 to S3. Shouldn't be that hard with virtual memory cards or saved data on the HD nowadays.

Do it as a big release and then use the money from that for a proper Suikoden 6.

[Neclord X]

In truth, Suikoden I ~ III were heavily influenced by the western High Fantasy genre, something which Murayama was a big fan of. Much of the backstory, dealing with the clash between Order and Chaos, was inspired by Michael Moorcock's series of books about Elric of Melniboné. Other influences can be seen in the Sindar race, whose name is derived from a race of Elves in Lord of the Rings, and the Dragon Knights, who several of us have theorized may have been inspired by Dragonriders of Pern (one book in the series being named The White Dragon). The inclusion of elves, dwarves, and kobolds (of all the mythical creatures they could have chosen) cement Suikoden's roots in western fantasy.

I feel like Suikoden has moved away from this and has adopted themes more akin to what most teenage anime fans are looking for, especially with the much more obvious divide between good and evil and the new primary theme of "young people banding together to protect the world." I liked Suikoden because it was so different from the rest of the pack of JRPGs. Now I feel like it's trying to follow suite.

I have to disagree partially there. It's true the last settlement (SV) was lot more "anime-like" but since the beginnings of this series was inspired in that. First suikoden influenced by LOTR? I think it's more influenced in Lodoss War that was an anime based on all that things you are saying and Arslan and Guin Saga (both japanese light novels). If you look at those works and compare them with suikoden, youll find suspicious similarities, lot more than between Suikoden and western works.

But I agree in something, that "anime" feelings has increased in each game, both in desigins and plot but it started in I, increased a lot in 2, even more in 3, drop a little in 4 and skyrocket on 5.

In any case in the late years jrpg has become basically playable anime, when it started to go no so well as before on sellings in western they decided to focus on the japanese market, making them less "for all tastes" and more suitable for japanese people. Anyway, in the case a Suikoden 6 is released, better you be ready for a really anime-like suikoden.

Even if I'm a BIG anime fan, I'm against this tendence. Certain level of anime feeling is fine, but more than certain point is not acceptable for me.

My main complain about how series are handled since S4 is how they give information as if was some kind of big franchise, giving a really little bit of info in each settlement. You can do that if you release a new game each few years, and also release novels, mangas, etc (with new info I mean, not retelling the stories we already know I mean) but not when you release a single game each 5 years.

So is as if...they wanted to make something "big" but at the same time doesn't care about it.

[Xelinis]

I have to disagree partially there. It's true the last settlement (SV) was lot more "anime-like" but since the beginnings of this series was inspired in that. First suikoden influenced by LOTR? I think it's more influenced in Lodoss War that was an anime based on all that things you are saying and Arslan and Guin Saga (both japanese light novels). If you look at those works and compare them with suikoden, youll find suspicious similarities, lot more than between Suikoden and western works.

I never said Suikoden was influenced by LOTRO, I said that the Sindar got their name from it. What I'm saying is that Suikoden was influenced by the western High Fantasy genre as a whole and a lot of it's names and concepts were derived from a range of literature belonging to it. Arslan and Guin Saga were also influenced by this genre.

[go_Namikaze]

hey guys...

we, especially myself as a huge suikoden series fan, want to make a fan made project called suikoden VI.
but we would like to use some konami's suikoden characters and story line like the hero and the world.

so, is it okay for us to make it and publish it !?
but it is for- non commercial use...

[Raww Le Klueze]

Simply put: no.

Suikoden and it's character and other properties legally belong to Konami even if they don't do anything with them. Commercial release or not, it's still not legal.

As for the question, would Konami pursue legal action against if you did it? Who knows, they have done similair things in the past and they've let others slide.

[Oppenheimer]

Well, that and the question is moot since from what I've witnessed a fan project like that would never get off the ground much less finished.

[Hirathien]

Well, you'll never know. Shadowrun recently got a reboot or something because of a kickstarter thing. Still, that's quite a bit different seeing as Shadowrun hasn't had any special activity of note lately, not that I know of at least.

But just starting a thing with Suikoden VI and hope that Konami doesn't mind? Doesn't seem smart.

[go_Namikaze]

i see...

even it is a fan made project. it still cant be make...
T_T

well, you know...
we really want to know the continuation of suikoden serries in suikoden 6.
but sice konami has not released it for a long period of time. we try to make a sequel story of a homemade game.
it is just for satisfaction of our grievance..
><

[Antimatzist]

If you do it anonymously in the internet, they can't charge you anyway. But I wouldn't call a fanmade game Suikoden VI, because the fanbase would flame you to death if it is even only mediocre.

If you want to do it, just do it, you never know what Konami would do.

[Punkaiser]

i see...

even it is a fan made project. it still cant be make...
T_T

well, you know...
we really want to know the continuation of suikoden serries in suikoden 6.
but sice konami has not released it for a long period of time. we try to make a sequel story of a homemade game.
it is just for satisfaction of our grievance..
><

I think you can do it with a proper disclaimer and credits go to Konami... stating your game is pure fan work, for non commercial purpose. But in any case, don't ever name it Suikoden ...something, it's their registered trademark and they might lose potential customer due to confusion with your game, at that moment they have the right to sue you. eg: remind me of chinese iphon or ifone recently LOL.

[Neclord X]

Commercial release or not, it's still not legal.
.

Errrr, nope, if that was truth, half japan would be in prison just for doujins.