How would you fix the Suikoden series?

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Exophase
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Exophase » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:06 am

Hm.. I'll try not to repeat what everyone else has been saying.. just some random stuff off the top of my head:

Suikoden 1:
- Somehow make the game much longer, around 2's length at least
- Include some optional dungeons
- Proper final battle music

Suikoden 2:
- Add more towns to Highland to make it feel like an actual country
- Give some kind of (optional?) flashback at some point showing how Flik/Viktor managed to escape at the end of 1
- Have music other than "The Labyrinth" for "dungeon" areas - they used this in every. single. place.
- Music performed by an orchestra like in 1 (hey, why not)

Suikoden 3:
- Less repetition in the individual trinity-sight scenarios
- Better music (okay, this is really vague, but I liked the score in 1 and 2 a lot more)
- Ability to actually expand (or at least repair, geez) the HQ

Suikoden 4:
- Rework the dumb video camera plot device to something else, that felt massively out of place.. and while you're at it, the ship didn't really need an elevator, let the Suikoden 1 guy legitimately lay claim to having invented that
- Massively improve the spell animations in battle, they were awful
- Make the Rune of Punishment actually worth using, and return the original effects to the Soul Eater spells

Suikoden 5:
- Increase the main battle difficulty a lot (not the difficulty of finding characters or the military battles, those were hard enough)

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Zer0
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Zer0 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:02 pm

Raww Le Klueze wrote:
Zer0 wrote:
It could work as a final step, bu you can forgive Snowe pretty much from the get-go, he's the one who refuses to join you, so it doesn't really work. If you had only been able to retaliate against him in the earlier scenes it might have worked better, as in the only choice was executing him or setting him adrift on the ocean like he did to you and then finally manage to forgive him I could buy it as a part of Razro's atonement.



What did Lazlo do to deserve punishment? it was my idea that he doesn't need to be forgiven, showing forgiveness allowed the rune to shift to the forgiveness phase. In any case, i think it's more likely that it's linked entirely to the power of the stars of destiny. Which may be a cop out but meh.

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EstrangedIX
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby EstrangedIX » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:17 pm

Something I would fix is the inconsistency of rune spells between games. Not just the Soul Eater but regular runes as well. I'd also tweak the order of certain ones so you didn't get cheated out of something good when upgrading, like losing Kindness Drops or Clay Guardian.

Accessory slots would be just that. Using an item from the bag wouldn't waste a turn so you wouldn't have to equip meds. Scrolls I can see, but I hate taking up valuable defense item space with meds. Maybe that's just my pet peeve though.

Luc's chapter was cool, but you should be able to do more with him and the others. I think both II and IV could benefit from completion bonuses like that as well. Seeing a bit of Jowy's perspective in Highland and maybe a battle or 2 with Seed and Culgan in your party would be sweet. As for IV, I think a Troy chapter that offered something similar would've made people like that game more. And he wouldn't have to die. I get the whole captain going down with his ship thing and his attitude toward Lazlo, but he could've at least been rescued by mermaids or something.

More enemy perspectives in general throughout the games would enhance that non black & white view of war that makes these games so great. I want to have a healthy respect for my enemies when I have to fight them.

I think most of the other things I'd change have already been covered.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:45 pm

Exophase wrote:Hm.. I'll try not to repeat what everyone else has been saying.. just some random stuff off the top of my head:

Suikoden 1:
- Somehow make the game much longer, around 2's length at least
- Include some optional dungeons
- Proper final battle music

Suikoden 2:
- Add more towns to Highland to make it feel like an actual country
- Give some kind of (optional?) flashback at some point showing how Flik/Viktor managed to escape at the end of 1
- Have music other than "The Labyrinth" for "dungeon" areas - they used this in every. single. place.
- Music performed by an orchestra like in 1 (hey, why not)

Suikoden 3:
- Less repetition in the individual trinity-sight scenarios
- Better music (okay, this is really vague, but I liked the score in 1 and 2 a lot more)
- Ability to actually expand (or at least repair, geez) the HQ

Suikoden 4:
- Rework the dumb video camera plot device to something else, that felt massively out of place.. and while you're at it, the ship didn't really need an elevator, let the Suikoden 1 guy legitimately lay claim to having invented that
- Massively improve the spell animations in battle, they were awful
- Make the Rune of Punishment actually worth using, and return the original effects to the Soul Eater spells

Suikoden 5:
- Increase the main battle difficulty a lot (not the difficulty of finding characters or the military battles, those were hard enough)


You mean remove RoP's damage-to-self effect EVEN before it changes to Forgiveness phase? But that's not RoP in its Punishment phase anymore. But how about increasing the damage to enemies while decreasing the damage to self? Also, make the Instant Death spell deal damage instead if the target is invulnerable to Instant Death.

And as for S4's Soul Eater, well, let's just say Ted haven't mastered it that much as he had in S1, and not to mention the Fog Ship Captain stole it from him for quite some time, so Ted had to master it all over again.

However, when Tir McDohl, a new SE host, wielded it...

Hmmm... I see now why some people want the original SE effects to come back, but that would make SE so much of a Game Breaker that would make RoP pretty much pathetic. And if you're the Hero and somebody else has a cooler TR than yours, well, that sucks, right?

But then, let's just face it. Lazlo isn't really a full-fledged mage, he has an average MAG growth unlike the MAG-heavy heroes Freyjadour Falenas and Tir McDohl, and he even has a lower LUCK stat compared to the other heroes. The only advantage he has compared to them is HP growth. By comparison:

Hero / HP / MAG
S1 Tir / 06 / 06
S2 Tir / 05 / 07
Riou / 05 / 05
Thomas / 05 / 03
Hugo / 04 / 04
Lazlo / 06 / 05
Frey / 04 / 06
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Antimatzist
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:21 am

EstrangedIX wrote:Accessory slots would be just that. Using an item from the bag wouldn't waste a turn so you wouldn't have to equip meds. Scrolls I can see, but I hate taking up valuable defense item space with meds. Maybe that's just my pet peeve though.

I think this is one of the most interesting things because you have to plan your battles ahead. I often forgot to bring medicine and sometimes battles became more difficult because of that etc.

But yeah, they make Troy BETTER. Somehow the game makes it seem as the whole game was about the fight between Hero and Troy, but I didn't feel that way because Troy did so little. They should take a lot of Tactics' newly added background information and put it in Suikoden IV, too.

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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby DoReMi_Vampire » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:13 am

Another thing that could improve SII. How about putting Nash into the scenes where he met Riou in the Suikogaidens? Maybe make him an optional party-member like Tir was?
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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:18 am

Maybe make him an optional party-member like Tir was?

Nash never interacts that way with hero 2, and he leaves Dunan after the fall of Greenhill.

At the most he can make a cameo appearance in the streets of Muse before Highland invades and as the guard guarding the tent in the Highland camp. Sierra, Nanami and some other people can leave comments about him or mention him in some other way but he can't take part in the actual game without completely disregarding Suikogaiden and then what's the point?
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Piisuke
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Piisuke » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:46 am

Suikoden

- Fix the grammar
- Add additional storylines and chapters to make the game longer
- Improve the graphics/animations to be on par with Suikoden II
- Improve the portraits
- Add running (it has been added to the PSP version of I &II)
- Rename the True Holy Rune to the Godspeed Rune
- Run diagonally (again, possible on the PSP)
- Add descriptions to what the spells and unites do
- Update the music and especially the quality ... midi..
- Add more diverse songs, multiple battle themes, final boss theme, re-use Gothic Neclord, etc
- Bonus content, optional dungeons, super bosses, new game +

Suikoden II

- Update the graphics to make them HD. Improved animations, bright sharp HD feel and look
- Bonus content, optional dungeons, super bosses, new game +
- Run diagonally
- Fix grammar
- Rename the True Holy Rune to Godspeed Rune
- Fix continuation errors

Suikoden IV

- Remove it from existance (kidding)
- Improve spell animations, they were dire
- Improve the plot and make it more coherent
- Lower the random encounter rate
- Get boat improvements to make it go faster
- Add more areas to explore
- Bonus content, optional dungeons, super bosses, new game +
- Fix continuation errors

Suikoden V
- Bonus content, optional dungeons, super bosses, new game +
- Make the game harder, or make characters like Richard, Cathari and Zerase less powerful
- Remove the fixed camera angle and replace it with a rotating one
- Improve spell animations. Not as bad as SIV, but nowhere close to that of SII
- Improve battle animations and make unites look a bit more unqiue. They're all very bland.
- Fix continuation errors
-

Also, all games should have the Cooking Mini Game.
And call me crazy, but I'd like to see more of Chiepoo, he was funny.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:24 am

Add running (it has been added to the PSP version of I &II)

I wish people would stop saying that. You cannot run without a Holy Rune in any version of Suikoden, not Saturn, not PSP.
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Piisuke
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Piisuke » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:40 am

Raww Le Klueze wrote:
Add running (it has been added to the PSP version of I &II)

I wish people would stop saying that. You cannot run without a Holy Rune in any version of Suikoden, not Saturn, not PSP.


Then what am I doing then in Suikoden II that makes my character move faster if I hold a certain button? If my memory serves me right, neither Jowy, or Riou have any Holy Rune, especially not when they're in the Unicorn Brigade Camp at the start of the game.
Please tell me you didn't 'walk' through the game.

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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:42 am

He's talking about Suikoden I. There is no way for you to run there without the Holy Rune.

In Suikoden II, you can run from the start by pressing O.

And you were referring to Suikoden I so Raww corrected you.

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Piisuke
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Piisuke » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:47 am

Antimatzist wrote:He's talking about Suikoden I. There is no way for you to run there without the Holy Rune.

In Suikoden II, you can run from the start by pressing O.

And you were referring to Suikoden I so Raww corrected you.


And I want to get that added, because in any other game it is possible. I remember being able to run on the PSP, which I might have remembered incorrectly, but I interpreted his comment as being unable to run in any Suikoden game, unless one has the Godspeed Rune.

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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:48 am

He's talking about Suikoden, the first one. And yeah, you probably remembered incorrectly.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:49 am

Piisuke wrote:Then what am I doing then in Suikoden II that makes my character move faster if I hold a certain button?

Probably running. Has very little to do with your claim that they added running to Suikoden though.
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Oppenheimer
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Re: How would you fix the Suikoden series?

Postby Oppenheimer » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:02 am

Piisuke wrote:Suikoden V
- Bonus content, optional dungeons, super bosses, new game +

Suikoden V already has new game +. What I wish they changed about New Game + is allowing you to put anyone in your party that you recruited in your last play through right at the beginning. I've said this before, but it would be nice to be able to use late joiners early in the game.


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