The series will (probably) end eventually. When should it?

A place to post news and also give your ideas about the future of the Suikoden series.
Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
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Silverberg
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Silverberg » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:53 pm

Gah! I can't say anything about Tierkreis because I never played it. So are you saying the showdown with the One King wasn't as epic as it seemed it was going to be?
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby gilgamesh31 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:59 pm

Not as epic as a showdown against Hikusaak would be but the games actually not bad as a stand along title but its no suikoden. it just seems that they just used loads of ideas that they were perhaps going to use in the main suikoden world but they just didnt carry much weight when they transferred them. I thought at first that the one king might be Hikusaak after he has acquired all the runes and become a sort of God able to travel to otherworlds and crush them. i hope im wrong...
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Silverberg » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:05 pm

I hope not. Standalone series are fine, but I don't like it when they incorporate it into the main story and not everyone might have played it. I'm pretty sure one of those Suikogaiden games explained little Viki from S3 but I had no idea.

I just want to fight in Harmonia against Hikusaak. I'm actually hoping it will be over the course of a couple of games because it should be that epic
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby gilgamesh31 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:06 am

yeah i think maybe four more games would be good. 6 set in new armes 7 in zelant 8 in gaien dukedom and 9 a massive battlet beetween nameless lands and harmonia that would be enough to cover most the world we know about
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby DoReMi_Vampire » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:54 pm

The series probably could use some time to explore the Western and Eastern continents as well IMHO.

There's also the possibility to tell stories set in smaller countries like Zelant and Kanakan through the Suikogaiden-format instead, just to cut the game-developers some slack so they can focus more on the big picture during the official games.
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby veriaqa » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:13 pm

I've stated this, If SUiko VI = Tierkreis II thats mean it have any elements from tierkreis or even all the tierkreis universe melted to suikoverse the let suiko series ends now.

Let Konami kill the series now when we as fans still love it to the bones rather than after Konami ruin it with discontinuity, cosmos reset, and anything that will make my beloved series looks like cheap rpg series.
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Flufflez » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:22 am

one thing not discussed enough is the graphical style you would want to see the next suikodens made in. i personally can't stand the graphics of 3,4,5. it is too difficult to show the facial expressions. one of the luxuries of 1,2 was the ability to show emotion through the text icon portraits only, because it is too difficult to discern any clear expression from the sprites. i'm not sure what would work best in a 3d environment, but at the moment i'm thinking a more advanced version of the windwaker style might be appropriate. if the in-game isn't going to be sprites then it should be as close to the anime-esque intros as possible.
i know this isn't quite on topic, but if you're going to discuss the ending of the series you need to know what you want it to look like.

edit: maybe something that looks more like okami than windwaker now that i think about it more.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby gilgamesh31 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:56 am

Yeah i was going to say cell-shaded characters and enemies perhaps with 2d backgrounds like Tierkreis but of a much higher quality if it were to be on a non handheld console. Even the Wii could handle that i mean look at 'Muramasa the Demon blade' beautiful landscapes in 2d or Okami as Flufflez already mentioned. I also agree that the graphics took a nose dive after suikoden II, 3D graphics look dated extreamly quickly. V was almost there but it looked strange especially as you couldnt rotate the camera. I really think that Suikoden should revert back to its 2d glory days i mean it would be far cheaper and it would differentiate it from all the other 3d rpgs of today. I think theres still life in 2d games: HD baby Castlevania Harmony of Despair looks brilliant in 2dHD i wouldnt count old 2d out just yet
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Silverberg » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:59 am

Konami should partner with Square-Enix to do a Suikoden game in the style of Star Ocean. 6 characters running around the field in real time combat = chaotic awesomeness!

Or as I've mentioned somewhere, Konami could get a team together to produce a good quality 2D style Suikdoen VI as a download off the PSN.

Actually, i think it would be awesome to re-render 3-5 in 2D and release them on the PSN. Someone did that with the SNES version of Mega Man 8. They took the 16bit graphics throughout the entire game and redid it in 8bit. I thought that was awesome.
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Xelinis » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:06 pm

Silverberg wrote:Konami should partner with Square-Enix to do a Suikoden game in the style of Star Ocean. 6 characters running around the field in real time combat = chaotic awesomeness!



No, no, and no.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Silverberg » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:51 pm

Xelinis wrote: No, no, and no.


Why, why, and why? Can't help but wonder why that (maybe minus the Square-Enix partnership) wouldn't work.

Maybe a complete overhaul of the battle system is just what the Suikoden series needs to become great again. Frankly, the battle system in all of them was just too simple. Even the rune magic spells were named the same and had virtually the same animations. The only exception was 3, where the characters did run around the field to an extent and *gasp* maybe even do magic that could hurt your own team. So they were trying. It almost feels to me that the developers aren't very creative when it comes to the fights, or they're afraid to experiment with significant changes. As an example, S1 and S2 were essentially indentical when it came to fights. They added the chance of multiple attacks, and created better unite animations. So then they say "let's try something else". They make S3, and everyone goes "BOO!!! HISSSS!!" so they go back to the same formula in S4 and S5. And when they did that, not only was it pretty much like S1 and S2 (quick and simple) but they even dumbed it down further by, first, making it a four person party, and then in S5, giving us these special formations. I forget which one it was, but one of those formations pretty much made every battle as simple as the push of a button.

If you want an awesome RPG, you have to back your awesome original story with awesome game mechanics. And music! Have to have awesome music for your awesome RPG. If you just want the same ol same ol, then you might as well just replay the original games and tell the Emperor "I don't wanna", or run away from Tinto and have Ridley die. Or have Childreich kill Roy. I don't want the same. I want a gripping drama that is constantly being weaved and holding my attention. And with that, I want a battle system that is as equally gripping and makes winning that much more important. I don't want to just press "Free Will" every time because I know I'll win.

Let's look at the evolution of the Final Fantasy Series. Square for example, took their games in different directions. They weren't afraid to experimenting to keep things different and new. Granted, they weren't on the same planet or whatever, for the most part, you still had the basic elements that made it a Final Fantasy game. Spells, summons, chocobos. If you evolve Suikoden into a unique experience every game but leave in the same basic elements, (108 stars, runes, unites, bath parties) then it's still the same, but better. Even something as simple as having a Final Fantasy X battle mechanic where you can switch out party members with reserve members would be exciting. YOu know where that would have been awesome? S2 when you're liberating Greenhill. I'd love to have 6 party members to wail all the hollys and whatever through the forest, and then when I fight that big skeleton dragon, switch out a few of the fighters for mages. It's things like that that keep the fans coming back, and attracts new players.

Just thinking outside the box here. Besides, we can discuss future game mechanics, endings, characters, runes, and geography until we're blue in the face. Until I see some evidence that they're developing Suikoden VI, might as well come up "crazy" ideas to keep us entertained for the forseeable future.


Sorry, I went on too long. Every time I finished a sentence I thought of something else. Even now I'm thinking of other ideas but I'll hold off for now.
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby gilgamesh31 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:39 am

I'm not sure that the star ocean fighting system would work to well with a party of 6 members but it could be right. I was actually thinking about the battle system the other day when i was playing through III again. Although the buddy system sucks ass i think III had some interesting ideas for fighting, such as casting times, being able to cancel magic, having everyone running around and being able to hurt your own team if they get to close to where the spell is cast. I think if they implemented these features into an actual 6 man party (No teams) then it would make battles more interesting and challenging.

One of my favorite RPG battle systems is the Grandia series, I like that you have two types of attacks: a regular one and a critical one. The critical one knocks the target back on the speed meter allowing for alot more strategy. The army battles could be a mix beetween II and III, i like that leveling up characters actually affects the war battles in III add that to II's Fire emblem style battles and i think it would make leveling up all 108 characters more benifical.
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Jowy Atreides » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:42 am

Good replies, but they're off-topic. I'm specifically looking for when the series should end.
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby gilgamesh31 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:47 am

8) Ok well thats an easy one, when theyve revealed all the runes, all the countries, most the mysteries and when Hikasaak gathers all 27 runes and transcends this world as the one king only to have his ass handed to him in Tierkries.
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby LanceHeart » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:04 pm

I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to mention that the Star Ocean series is developed by tri-Ace. Square Enix has nothing to do with most of the best "action" JRPGs out there.

I also don't think it would be a good idea to have Suikoden become one. Both the Tales and Star Ocean series are evolutions of their own action-based battle formulas, much like how Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are evolutions of turn based and active-time battle respectively. For Suikoden to suddenly change battle systems would definitely require testing it in a spinoff.

On-topic, I think the next Suikoden game should be the last in the numbered series' story. With so few original members left working on the games and with such a humongous universe to track properly, Konami won't be able to adequately support the games if the amount of research required to make each successive game becomes that much larger and costly.

I would rather see Suikoden get one final, proper game universe-wise than a succession of cop-outs that mirror Tierkreis in the game director's lack of motivation to immerse him/herself in the series.
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