The series will (probably) end eventually. When should it?

A place to post news and also give your ideas about the future of the Suikoden series.
Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
Jowy Atreides
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The series will (probably) end eventually. When should it?

Postby Jowy Atreides » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:53 pm

Would you be satisfied if the series ended after Suikoden VI?

I think that, if Konami did it right, they could tie up most of the major loose ends (Jeane, Pesmerga/Yuber, Viki, etc.) and still have a good story with a compelling cast and a multi-dimensional villainy. A never-ending series would be nice, but for an interconnected world like Suikoden's I think six games (or more if the spin-offs are included) is impressive.

Well, what do you think? How many more games do we need?

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amelia108
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby amelia108 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:03 am

Well, considering the rate at which IV and V were going rune-wise (one each) I think the team wanted it to go on pretty much as long as possible before revealing all 27. That's before IV killed off a lot of interest and V sold even worse because of it. I think the heads at Konami are the only ones holding it back now. I hope they eventually take a chance with VI again though and it regains enough popularity to keep it going past VI. I think at this point, a lot of people are clamoring for it; not just us big fans.

I think the series probably needs 2 or 3 more games to fully end it. Trying to finish it with one game would just be rushing it, because there's a ton of loose-ends to tie up (satisfyingly) in one game and yet still fit in the regular war-torn story. I say maybe test the waters again with VI and if it sells okay, then continue on with vii, and viii, and make it some kind of "end trilogy." If it doesn't sell so well, just make vii and be done with it. That, or just go low-budget and produce them for psp or ds (not spin-offs like tierkreis). Seriously, they could probably go on forever doing low-budget regular entries, even if it is Konami's "flagship" RPG and that would be "lessening" it, as I know many will say. Frankly, I'd rather just the series be continued in any way possible at this point.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Jowy Atreides » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:31 am

amelia108 wrote:Well, considering the rate at which IV and V were going rune-wise (one each) I think the team wanted it to go on pretty much as long as possible before revealing all 27.
Does a 'Suikoden team' actually exist? I'm thinking that the current members don't really have a clue as to what the last True Runes should be, and in my opinion a few True Runes already overlap too much (Sun and True Fire being an example). This is not to deflate your point, but I do wonder if the series could actually last that long and still be compelling.

I think the series probably needs 2 or 3 more games to fully end it. Trying to finish it with one game would just be rushing it, because there's a ton of loose-ends to tie up (satisfyingly) in one game and yet still fit in the regular war-torn story.
The current loose ends could be very easily tied up during the recruitment of the SoDs involved (think Hix and Tengaar in Suikoden II). Two or three of the "big ones" (Jeane and Viki, maybe Yuber/Pesmerga) could be dealt with during the main storyline while still remaining true to the 'Suikoden method'. It would be difficult, but not impossible. There may be some other big mysteries I'm not thinking of at the moment, but Suikoden VI could always be more "epic" than its predecessors.

I say maybe test the waters again with VI and if it sells okay, then continue on with VII, and VIII, and make it some kind of "end trilogy." If it doesn't sell so well, just make VII and be done with it. That, or just go low-budget and produce them for PSP or DS (not spin-offs like Tierkreis). Seriously, they could probably go on forever doing low-budget regular entries, even if it is Konami's "flagship" RPG and that would be "lessening" it, as I know many will say. Frankly, I'd rather just the series be continued in any way possible at this point.
This is another possibility, but the end result (and probable reality) of a dead series is still there. I'd rather the series end when it's ahead, like Cowboy Bebop, rather than going on for all eternity, like Naruto. But, those are just examples and I don't want to go off topic.
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Flufflez » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:58 pm

I've just started playing through the series again in order (currently about to hit chapter 4 of s3), but I remember thinking there was a lot of overlap on my first few playthroughs when I was younger. First time I played s3 I hated how similar the Flame Champion and Tir were. Same thing with s4 and Rune of Punishment vs. Soul Eater (hopefully I'll understand the key differences when I get to the game in my playthroughs but somehow I doubt it). Some of the repetition in the series could be used to the advantage of a few final games. For example, it's a little silly that every single region in the world is simultaneously going through some kind of civil war, so there would need to be something about the true runes that explains this. Obviously the series wouldn't feel complete without revealing all of the true runes. Repeating characters will help gain interest in new games not to mention wrap up their individual storylines. One big thing is the world map. We have yet to see Harmonia, Outlands, and maybe some other locations, not to mention how all locations in suikoden would actually fit together. How many games would it take to finish all of this content? I would think 3-4 if you focus on the time period of 1,2,3,5. In an imaginary perfect world where I get whatever I want, all of the five main current games would get makeovers. They would be tied together; some scenes from certain games would be shifted to the other games to make them feel more connected, like it's one big story. What would be realistic to expect from all of this? A game or two every 10-15 years when Konami has nothing better to do and wants to retest the waters with probably a game that is barely connected to the previous stories.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Jowy Atreides » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:38 pm

I agree with most of that, and I'd like to point out that one or two games every ten to fifteen years would put me in my thirties by the time the game-after-next comes out. I wonder if I'll still be fond of video games by then.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Flufflez » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:44 am

well, in my opinion, video games parallel books and movies. so although most people would look at it and say something like, "i liked checkers when i was a kid, i wonder if i'll still play checkers 15 years from now", i think it's more a case of "i liked books when i was a kid, i wonder if i'll still like books 15 years from now." when i was a kid i liked different kinds of movies or books than i like now, but i've played suikoden at an old enough age to know i'll still be able to appreciate the story regardless of age. i know that i'll enjoy video games for the rest of my life, the most difficult thing will be the time commitment involved with rpgs. when i was younger i could take three days out of the summer and play through a suikoden game. now that i'm in my mid twenties i have to chip away at them 1-3 hours at a time; sometimes a week or two pass between play sessions. if you're old enough to have played s1 and understood most of it, you are probably old enough to know you'll at least be interested in any future games later in life, regardless of whether or not you'll actually have the time to play them.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby ChaosMind » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:58 pm

Here is what they need to do(though they probably won't).

1.Hikusak finally gathers all the true runes becomes a god(I mean why else would anyone need all those runes?)
2.Leknaat reveals the full story of 'Order and Chaos' to the current hero and his army.
3.Jean and Viki secret's revealed. (And they better be pretty good considering how long they've been going)
4.Yuber joins Hikusak,and Pesmerga joins the heroes army too destroy him for good. (maybe explain why too)
5.Finally,if they want to end the main series so bad,have all the true runes be destroyed or sealed after the final battle.(And it needs to be EPIC and HARD,thinking something like the multi part Luca battle but more teams and multiple forms...lol yeah right...)

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Jowy Atreides » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:17 pm

I like everything except for #1 and the first part of #5. The former is too obvious and the latter would get rid of the open-ended nature of the series. I personally prefer the "Where are they now?" segment after the game ends. I know that this would theoretically be the last game, but I'd still like a little bit of mystery, except for the multi-game mysteries that already exist. Add some new mysteries, flesh out some characters we haven't seen in the games before (like George Silverberg).

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Silverberg » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:53 am

I'd like to see some kind of calling that occurs where all the True Rune bearers gather together in the final army as SoDs. That probably seems like something the creators would do.

How about if one of the final enemies isn't necessarily Hikusaak but a hero from one of the games. I could picture hero 5 taking up the Sun Rune for whatever reason and it drives him crazy like it did his mother. Then to fulfill the rune's destructive desires, joins up with Hikusaak, Yuber, and whoever else to bring the rain.

Leknaat, knowing the final battle for the world is at hand, shrugs off her duties as Executor of Balance and becomes an SoD herself, which I think we kind of want to see.

I don't know if they'll explain where the Wind Rune went after Luc died. I assume it went to someone else, or it's been reclaimed by Leknaat. I wouldn't mind seeing Leknaat bringing Luc back to life, giving him back the rune and having him join the hero's army again. Maybe he could make up with Sasarai or put aside his own world destroying ambitions to fight Hikusaak in some kind of revenge fashion. But Leknaat already used the power of the 108 stars to bring Gremio back to life (great use of a one time thing by the way =P) so I guess that probably wouldn't happen.

Anyway, I think a final game would consist of mostly returning characters. Introducing new characters in a final installment, unless they were important to the current story, would be wasteful, since only returning characters would really understand what is at stake.

And if my ideas hold any water with what will actually happen, I'd like to see the character epilogues flushed out a little. "Becomes Captain of the guard" is a little too short for a final epilogue. Hell, depending on the character, I'd like to see full page conclusions. I think Viki and Jeane deserve at least half a page themselves.
"Black Rune, pink balloon! This guy killed Gremio!!!"

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Themadcow » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:57 am

Jowy Atreides wrote:I agree with most of that, and I'd like to point out that one or two games every ten to fifteen years would put me in my thirties by the time the game-after-next comes out. I wonder if I'll still be fond of video games by then.


I'm 35. Recompleted Suiko 1 and 2 in the last year - still brilliant.

On the other hand, I really struggled to get into Mass Effect 2 recently so as long as they don't turn Suiko into a FPS then I'm happy.

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby gilgamesh31 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:27 pm

They also need to incorperate the previous rune bearers in some way even if they're unplayable it would be cool to just see say Chris/Hugo/Geddoe/Seirra/Tir/Joshua/Lazlo etc all present in the final battle even if its just in a cut scene. I dont think the new stars of destiny would necessarily have to be recurring characters as long as they were all interesting in their own way unlike IV i would be fine with that. They would have to finish of some storylines obviously viki/jeane/persmerga but it would be cool to round of lesser characters stories like Hix and Tengaar or Templeton. I wonder what Zen would be up to right about now...?
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Silverberg » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:06 pm

Wasn't Zen the gardner outside of Qlon temple? If so, I would also be curious to see if his flowers ever bloomed. I've been looking in gardening shops for years but have never found any yellow, blue, or red seeds.

Pretty sure Windy needs to come back at some point. Clearly she and Leknaat need to have a duel to determine who is going to have the whole Gate Rune. Or in an interesting turn, it could be made apparenent that Windy never wanted the Soul Eater for herself, but for Hikuusak who she may have been working for for centuries.
"Black Rune, pink balloon! This guy killed Gremio!!!"

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby gilgamesh31 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:20 pm

"Black Rune, pink balloon! This guy killed Gremio!!!"

I love your signiture, everytime i play suikoden 1 that bit always makes me laugh as if its the first time ive read it. Oh yeah i forgot about Windy they blantantly changed her status to MIA for a reason. I want to see Barbarossa back aswell maybe he can redeem himself he was the Golden Emporer afterall, that guys just to much of a badass to get lost in the mail.

Even though i would love for the storyline of 6 to be post suikoden 3 there is just so much potential for great storys set within the timeline we already have. Like id love if they made perhaps a spin off called Suikoden Legends or something like that exploring the heros war, Succession wars: Scarlet moon and Falena, First fire bringer war or the high east rebellion. That way we could have all the reaccuring charcters fleash out their stories more while the main series "Suikoden 6 etc" concludes the epic rune war that its been leading towards.
If it's not found out, a lie becomes the truth.

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Silverberg
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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby Silverberg » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:31 pm

Thanks for the comment on my signature. It didn't take me any time at all to decide which quote was best to use :)

I think Windy and Barbarosa have to come back. Windy has a true rune, and I believe Barbarosa's Sovereign Rune was a true rune wasn't it? So if my theory holds that all the true rune bearers will get together at the end for a final showdown, those two would have to be there. Unless of course their runes became detached in death or something and went to other hosts. But I think Barbarosa would be on the good side in a final conflict. He almost seemed greatful to Tir for topping his empire, ruined by Windy.

I also agree S6 would have to take place after 3. If they wanted to do prequels to build back up to the present, they wouldn't have gone 150 years back, and then 15? years back. They would have had a couple of games in between. But I couldn't quite tell when Luc's premonitions take place. It almost seemed like it would be soon. If Luc was showing Hugo the future, then the Karaya village looked untouched by time (or whatever vision you saw depending on the flame champion selection) leading me to suspect it would be soon after S3.

But I would like to check out the Armes Kingdom in a future title. There'd definetely be some colorful characters in that game.
"Black Rune, pink balloon! This guy killed Gremio!!!"

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Re: The series will (probably) end eventually. When should i

Postby gilgamesh31 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:48 pm

Yes the sovereign rune is one of the 27 true runes and yeah i agree that he did seem like he wanted to lose even by the time he meet futch. I think that the vision Luc had was when all the true runes where gathered by Hikusaak but i may be wrong?

Tierkreis Spoiler:
I cant help but think that Tierkreis was meant to be a sort of final game but really rushed and moved to a different world to not have to deal with all the mysteries of the rune world. The one kings eternally repeated day and Lucs vision are far to simular. The one king collects those book things and Hikusaak collects all the runes. It was trying to be so epic as well what with all the other worlds fighting the one king together in their own worlds etc. I hope not though as that would suck balls!
If it's not found out, a lie becomes the truth.


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