It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

A place to post news and also give your ideas about the future of the Suikoden series.
Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
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Antimatzist
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Antimatzist »

But basically, it's smehow canon. I still hope they will never return to that world because there is so much wrong and you're right, this changing timeline thing never worked in the game and has so many flaws. In the beginning it is ok, but after some hours of gameplay it doesn't work so nicely anymore.

@JiggleBiscuits: If Konami made a Suikoden game with no hint to other games or so whatever - only one single line in the game of a guy saying "I will go to Gregminster tomorrow, it's on the other side of the world" - would you say it's canon now even besides of this, it is completley unrelated?
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KC_MCDOHL
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by KC_MCDOHL »

A new Suikoden!!!!!!!! At last!!!!!

I was so excited last night I jast HAD to walk 2 miles in the pitch dark to the nearest garage and get 2 bottles of wine :)

I want to say thanks to everyone that remaind positive and campaigned all the way up until now. I'm guessing this game was already in development, or atleast in the planning stages, before we started campaigning but I have no doubt that we had some effect. Konami definantly know our voice and, hopefully, we have been listened too properly.

I am still worried, however, about what direction exactly they are taking the series in. Suikoden IV, Tactics and V all deviated away from the main Murayama timeline and it seemed that Konami where doing this so not to damage what Murayama had started while they where perhaps trying to think of a way to bring the series forward beyond the SIII timline. Instead, now we have Teirkries, and potentialy this new game, that deviate away from the Suikoden world altogether while they are perhaps thinking of a new way into which they can just get back to the normal Suikoden world. It is very frustrating. But these ARE just spin off games and even if it was Teirkries II that they just announced, if it is a step towards getting that desired Suikoden VI, then I say buy it. Buy it and support the series. But if you are not happy with Teirkries, this new game, or just the general future of our beloved series, THEN ALSO CAMPAIGN. Make your voices heard.

Konami have let us know, and definantly let Rooks know with an awesome response to his awesome essay, that they have listened to our voices and concerns. They have said that they are very aware that Teirkries was not a hit amongst fans so, technicaly, they should have learned their lessons from that and this new game should be a major improvement ....even if it does turn out to be in the same vein. We do not know anything about this game yet so it would be far too easy for us to jump to conclusions and get very negative over it. The way I see it, they have not given up on the series. If you want to see the series continue, then you shouldnt give up on it either. Campaign. We have a new Suikoden now, yes, but there is still much we can do. We made our voices heard and Konami listened to us. They are giving us a new Suikoden, probably an Official Suikoden Facebook fan page and surely its only a matter of time now for Suikoden II to come out on PSN. We cant ask for much more than that :)

We can, however, ensure that Konami keep listening to us. If we want Suikoden VI, if we want the timeline to continue after III, if we want the series to continue in the way the most of us desire, then we have to ensure we have some say in the future of the series ...some control. Therefore, the attention of the campaign should now shift to establishing that relationship with Konami. This has been my aim all along and now that we have a new Suikoden in the works, I can fully focus on that which will make my job much easier. If we can get Konami to approach us after the release of this new game, we can give them our likes and dislikes, our opinions on what we thought needed improving, what we would like to see in future installments and what we expect from the series as a whole. Kind of like what they done with Teirkries, but that was only the once they approached us in the whole 15 years of Suikoden existence ...and even then the questions where not answered to the fans satisfaction.

If we can achieve that kind of relationship with Konami, then we will get our series back on track. It also means we wont have to campaign like mad every single year. Which I enjoy doing, its something im interested in and passionate about, but it does take up alot of time lol it would be far easier for Konami to approach us, after the subsequent release of every Suikoden game, and not exactly hard for them to do.

I will approach Konami, with this premise, once again. I will also be recruiting as many possible volounteers as I can and show them how to contact Konami executives where they can then present Konami with the same ideas. Please feel free to join in, if you are interested.

Well done everyone again for staying positive and not giving up. There you have it, proof our series is not dead :)
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Night Shadow
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Night Shadow »

=D yay us.

good job kc! good job rooks! good job nanami_chan! good job luke! good job all the people i forgot to mention. =P

=D we're getting a new suikoden. be happy everyone. =)
‎"...Or else, it is the dream that haunts you. You wait with the promise of the next dream...when the act of waiting is dependent on remembering."
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Xelinis
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Xelinis »

Raww Le Klueze wrote:
Mustang wrote: Wow... so ignorant

Suiko 1.
The dragon can only live in this world because of the power of the Dragon Rune. And they're not native to this world

Suiko 2
Yuber summon the Bone Dragon from somewhere. And their the case of the missing Sindar civilization


Suiko 3
It was said that Yuber was not from this world. Sarah open a gate to summon monsters from another world

Suiko 4 + Tactics
:lol: Have you played these game?
Actually, what Tierkreis calls the Infinity is a complete bastardization of what the Million Worlds was in the original series.

Nor can Tierkreis seem to decide what it wants it to be either, sometimes it's alternate timelines, sometimes it's new worlds. Tierkreis is a retcon to fit a completely absurd premise.
Indeed, Tierkreis' interpretation of the Million Worlds is a bastardization of its original concept put forth by Murayama and his original team. However, in the end, Konami controls this series and what they consider canon goes.

So, y'know, tough.
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Rooks
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Rooks »

Ok First off, I think arguing about canon at this point is silly. We should be happy. Second -to put it bluntly- canon does not exist. At all. And arguing about it is just even more silly. Sure, there are thousands of fansites for hundreds of works that argue about canon all day long, but as Suikoden fans we should be smart enough to not emulate them, alright. I don't think I am wrong to expect more out of us than Star Trek fans.

What do I mean when I say canon does not exist? I mean that no matter what Konami or even Murayama tells you, you cannot believe something that you do not want to believe, and you will believe the things that you do. Simple as that. For a more complex explanation, read Roland Barthes (Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Barthes ) and Michel Foucault (Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucalt ).

Also, KC, you were drunk? A new Suikoden Game was announced and you were no where to be found, I assumed your interwebs were down again, and you were getting wasted on the Kanakan wine and didn't Invite me.... That's it I am mad.
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KC_MCDOHL
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by KC_MCDOHL »

lol yeah, I was away all weekend....from Thursday. I was reluctant to go because I knew I'd miss the announcemnt but the whole weekend was paid for me so I couldnt really refuse. Although, I was actualy sober when I got back here to HQ and seen the announcment for real ....which, of course, meant I had to get drunk again ;)
tiki
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by tiki »

Xelinis wrote:Indeed, Tierkreis' interpretation of the Million Worlds is a bastardization of its original concept put forth by Murayama and his original team. However, in the end, Konami controls this series and what they consider canon goes.
just because you own the legal rights to something doesn't determine what is canon and isn't, canon isn't a legal concept, canon is something that is accepted by a community

for example, everyone accepts that in Lord of the Rings Frodo destroyed the ring and was victorious because Tolkein wrote it and it's canon, they even accept the works released by his son based on the notes left behind because they try to remain faithful to the original world

if someone bought the rights to the Lord of the Rings series and started pumping out romance novels pairing up Frodo/Legolas and Gimli/Sauron, no one would accept it as canon because it would be overwhelmingly stupid

even though Suikoden IV and V weren't written by Muramaya, they are accepted by the community because they're clearly trying to fit into the offered canon in at least a respectful manner

next to no one accepts that Tierkreis has anything to do with Suikoden's canon, so the community rejects it

if they released a Suikoden game where you time travel and assassinate Tir and McDohl before they could unite the stars, it would not be accepted as canon and instead some insane fanfiction or bastardization of the series

at least I hope they would
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Xelinis
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Xelinis »

tiki wrote:
Xelinis wrote:Indeed, Tierkreis' interpretation of the Million Worlds is a bastardization of its original concept put forth by Murayama and his original team. However, in the end, Konami controls this series and what they consider canon goes.
just because you own the legal rights to something doesn't determine what is canon and isn't, canon isn't a legal concept, canon is something that is accepted by a community
No, canon is NOT determined by a community, it is determined by those who hold creative rights to the property.

Listen, I'm not denying that Tierkreis is an inferior product, because it really is. However, it's canon. Deal with it.
tiki
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by tiki »

so your argument is that if Tolkein wrote Lord of the Rings, then died, then an eccentric millionaire bought up the rights to the series and released Lord of the Rings: Hobbit Lust, Elven Thrust it would be canon

hahaha no

canon is not a legal concept, sorry, simply acquiring the legal rights to a story doesn't mean what you say happens in it actually happens and has to be accepted by anyone

Suikoden was almost entirely Muramaya's story, IV and V aren't his but they're a tasteful continuation of his vision

Tierkreis most certainly isn't

deal with it

or I guess you could draw a line between 'Muramaya canon' and 'Konami canon', that would be cool with me, especially since I don't care what Konami says or thinks whatsoever
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Xelinis
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Xelinis »

tiki wrote:so your argument is that if Tolkein wrote Lord of the Rings, then died, then an eccentric millionaire bought up the rights to the series and released Lord of the Rings: Hobbit Lust, Elven Thrust it would be canon
Yes.
JiggleBiscuits
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by JiggleBiscuits »

Xelinis wrote: No, canon is NOT determined by a community, it is determined by those who hold creative rights to the property.

Listen, I'm not denying that Tierkreis is an inferior product, because it really is. However, it's canon. Deal with it.
That is incorrect.
Oppenheimer
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Oppenheimer »

As Vextor has said in the other thread:
Vextor wrote:Oh yes, please be aware Suikosource has fairly strict rules on personal attacks. It's simple really, if you can't make a point without personally attacking people who you disagree with, you probably don't have a point.

Feel free to engage perspectives and ideas, but no need to get into the whole "we're better fans than you" type discussion (that means, don't do it from here on out) as it's not productive from a community perspective.
I will add: Please post productively. If you cannot refuse someone else's argument with points then don't post. Single word posts are almost exclusively without merit. On the other hand saying "deal with it" is also not polite. I am as excited as anyone else about the new game, but if you cannot conduct civil conversation in the forums about it I will have to start handing out warnings.
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Rooks
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Rooks »

Hmm I am getting the feeling that the conversation here is not so much about making an argument, but just talking at one another. This is a thread about how we should make out voices heard to Konami.

Now, I did say my opinion -and the opinion of virtually every established modern Literary Theorist- that canon does not exist. Even more to the point, the very idea of it is simply manipulated as a marketing tool, having nothing to do with the artistic and aesthetic expressions and interpilations of the game /film/ book/ music/ etc. And of course I have been ignored.

So enough said about that. We still have things we can do to make our voices heard. Our friends and fellow suikoden fans in Europe still can't buy Suikoden on the PSN, and we should not only still push for a Suikoden VI, but for Digital releases of all the games. Konami is pressing the Metal Gear Solid HD collection -containing MGS, 2, 3, and Peacewalker. We should hit them up for a similar release of Suikoden titles as well. Perhaps with the new technology on the Vita, we could see all five games on one card, or in DLC. I think it would be a good time to call for this.
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KC_MCDOHL
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by KC_MCDOHL »

(sighs) things are getting way out of hand, as usual.

Please try to stick to the main content and respect each others opinion.

Yes, making our voices heard on Konami FB, and the other avenues we have mentioned, about Suikoden II on PSN should still be pursued. Feel free to add Suikoden I in EU PSN, Suikoden HD collection, Suikoden Digital releases and manga novel translations to that list also.

I would hold off on pushing Konami Japan for Suikoden VI for the time being so as not to come across as rude and ignorant striaght after the announcement of this new Suikoden. There is more than enough to keep us busy anyway (as outlined above).

I am still going to be focussing mainly on trying to establish a relationship with Konami so they can approach us and learn our true opinions after this new game.
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Piisuke
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Re: It's time to Ask Konami about Suikoden 6

Post by Piisuke »

I think any company would benefit from having a person to talk to about a franchise who would then speak to its fans.

In my opinion, I think Konami should pursue getting Suikoden I and II available on the PSN for all markets. It is sad to see that this still hasn't been done. Here in Europe we have Final Fantasy IV to IX available, as well as Parasite Eve II, Grandia and Vagrant Story.
I know the US PSN has Suikoden I available, which is a plus, but considering that this is only on the US, I feel it is somewhat forced, rather than wanted.

For 12 years, people have been looking to get Suikoden II, going as far as downloading it, which means that Konami lost money. The prices on ebay are simply ridiculous and a lot of people got put off by that. Where this game publicly available, this wouldn't be a problem.

As for Suikoden VI, I'm still believing that the Succession War would be an ideal game. Sure, we know the outcome, but we did the same with MGS and Naked Snake and look how that turned out. It became the best MGS game in the franchise and one of the best games ever. If done properly, the Succession War could become an amazing story that would then tie in neatly with Suikoden I.
It also sets up for Barbarossa to take up the Naked Snake role, or even to have Teo McDohl play in that role. The idea is there though and I think it would make for an amazing game, plus we'd be able to see a variety of characters return, because they'd exist in the same world and same region even.

Even if SVI is the last game, as long as the riddles and unsolved mysteries are explained, I am satisfied.
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