barren future: possible suikoden plot?

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Alisamakora
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barren future: possible suikoden plot?

Post by Alisamakora »

Didn’t see this anywhere in the speculation forums, so i decided to post it. Less future game speculation and more future plot speculation.

Luc never managed to destroy the true wind rune, so that leaves us to wonder: what about the barren future he saw? will it happen? and will it be as he saw, or something else entirely, but just as devastating?

Honestly, Suikoden III as a whole rang alarm bells for me. It was the last we saw of Yuber, who has been confirmed to have a hand in the end of the series, and he said some highly interesting things. That, combined my terribly out-there theories create something of an idea of what i could see as a "final" installment.

What if the barren future, that "world of absolute stillness and order" is a possible result of the battle that supposedly created the world? Sword and Shield were manifestations of order and chaos. What if one won over the other, instead of them both destroying each other? What if they still could, through the runes themselves?

I say this, because it's not too far a stretch to think the runes have something of sword and shield in them. each true rune was a jewel that decorated them, and fell to the earth after their battle, so therefore 13 and a half each can claim being a part of sword or shield ( the rune of beginning has two halves pertaining to each, so in essence there are 13 for each brother and one half of that rune each)

So what if the runes show what their respective origin point would have created if they won? And continue towards the brother’s goal unconsciously? They certainly continue their battle, whether against each other or simply war in general.

honestly, I think the creation myth is important somehow. it lacks a true "end". the brothers did not die, they shattered and became the earth and sky, in a way, still alive. there was no true resolution.

Again, less of a future game speculation, more of a future plot speculation.
Rezard
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Re: barren future: possible suikoden plot?

Post by Rezard »

Based on Suikoden III plot, I also though there was going to be a major true rune crash: a war of chaos and order.

Although a Suikoden game in a post-apocalypse future is possible, I think it is very unlikely. Probably the story should end before that, either with the stars saving the world or bringing a new world.
Masked Bishop
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Re: barren future: possible suikoden plot?

Post by Masked Bishop »

I've been saying for quite some time now that all I want is ONE MORE GAME. Just one. Yes, more would be ideal, but at this point I think asking anything much of Konami seems superfluous (even asking for one more game seems silly now, but I can't seem to draw that line). But, one more game would satisfy me as long as they brought the series to an appropriate conclusion, and this is not one that I would hate. Hell, I'm sure Konami would love to just kill the series off that way anyhow, at this point.

Also, I've always imagined that the whole outcome of the Pesmerga/Yuber conflict to have to do with the end of the world. I've, of course, no proof to back this up, but why else would the answer to this have to be put off to the last game? While I'm not an avid Pes-head like some others, I do think that that would be an interesting row to hoe for the next and/or last game.
JanusThePaladin
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Re: barren future: possible suikoden plot?

Post by JanusThePaladin »

I've always maintained that each game is a clash of law vs chaos. In Suikoden 1 you have a to lawful and regulated society to the point of stagnation, that is brought to chaos by the efforts of Mathui and the Tir, and a new, entirely different, divergent, and fluid society takes its place (in essence chaotic). In S2, Jowy seeks to use the power of the Black Sword Rune to bring a new law and order, and conquer the city states, a helter skelter, loosely connected and patrolled country. Obviously, he fails, and Riou and company maintain the city state's independence. S3 does not need to be expounded upon, as it has already been spoken of. In S4, the kooluks attempt to take advantage of the loose and chaotic countries of the island nations, who ban together and create a new, long standing law and order. Finally you have Suikoden 5, where they attempt to maintain and control an absolute law over the people, and its your job to stop them.

This of course is a simplification, but still, the point stands.
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patapi
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Re: barren future: possible suikoden plot?

Post by patapi »

Alisamakora wrote:It was the last we saw of Yuber, who has been confirmed to have a hand in the end of the series, and he said some highly interesting things.
Where was this said, actually? I wouldn't be surprised if he returns again for the final confrontation to finally get his hind handed to him for good, nonetheless.
Alisamakora wrote:Sword and Shield were manifestations of order and chaos.
I still haven't seen the official word for this. The Creation Myth itself seems to not make out such deep significance to the original Sword and Shield, no matter how many variations of the same tale that we've had so far?
Alisamakora wrote:each true rune was a jewel that decorated them, and fell to the earth after their battle, so therefore 13 and a half each can claim being a part of sword or shield ( the rune of beginning has two halves pertaining to each, so in essence there are 13 for each brother and one half of that rune each)
Minus the odd-numbered five elements, we have 22 runes and 11 each. And the Rune of Beginning is only one among them. If its halves were originally separated, wouldn't that make the distribution of those jewels unbalanced?
Alisamakora wrote:So what if the runes show what their respective origin point would have created if they won? And continue towards the brother’s goal unconsciously? They certainly continue their battle, whether against each other or simply war in general.
So, in the case of Suikoden III, it was four true runes against one? Wasn't it hinted that the True Fire Rune might have shown the same images to first Flame Champion as the ones shown to us by Luc's True Wind Rune anyway? So was it an internal conflict between true runes that sided with Order? How about the rest of the true elemental runes that we had on our side? Could it possibly mean that all five elements belonging to the side of Order, after all?
Alisamakora wrote:honestly, I think the creation myth is important somehow. it lacks a true "end". the brothers did not die, they shattered and became the earth and sky, in a way, still alive. there was no true resolution.
Isn't the existence of the earth and the sky itself was the resolution of that myth? I had the impression that the myth was first and foremost used to "explain" how the world as we know it came into being.

More importantly though, I wouldn't be surprised if they start to move away from traditional war between nations and/or factions, and towards these ideals somewhere along the line. After all, didn't one of the major elements in Tierkreis' plot was submission to fate versus free will?
LanceHeart
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Re: barren future: possible suikoden plot?

Post by LanceHeart »

I always thought that Tierkreis' plot was foreshadowing of the "end days" the elemental True Runes showed their owners. After all, it seems like Harmonia is slowing gearing up for a war against the world, especially if you consider how much they've been trying to meddle with wars involving the True Runes.

It wouldn't surprise me if a final game in the original Suikoden timeline ends up being similar to Tierkreis, but on a global scale.
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Alisamakora
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Re: barren future: possible suikoden plot?

Post by Alisamakora »

patapi wrote:
Alisamakora wrote:It was the last we saw of Yuber, who has been confirmed to have a hand in the end of the series, and he said some highly interesting things.
Where was this said, actually? I wouldn't be surprised if he returns again for the final confrontation to finally get his hind handed to him for good, nonetheless.
this has been previously stated by the original creator (Murayama) as well as the people who took over afterwards (though not so much in recent years.)
patapi wrote:
Alisamakora wrote:Sword and Shield were manifestations of order and chaos.
I still haven't seen the official word for this. The Creation Myth itself seems to not make out such deep significance to the original Sword and Shield, no matter how many variations of the same tale that we've had so far?
i believe it was hinted in suikoden II, as well as in the manga version of Suikoden III.


patapi wrote:
Alisamakora wrote:each true rune was a jewel that decorated them, and fell to the earth after their battle, so therefore 13 and a half each can claim being a part of sword or shield ( the rune of beginning has two halves pertaining to each, so in essence there are 13 for each brother and one half of that rune each)
Minus the odd-numbered five elements, we have 22 runes and 11 each. And the Rune of Beginning is only one among them. If its halves were originally separated, wouldn't that make the distribution of those jewels unbalanced?
what I said was this: the myth states there are 27 true runes. odd numbered, but the rune of beginning is a manifestation of BOTH, therefore it would either be neutral or playing both sides in any sort of conflict. thus the total would be 26 (neutral) or 28 (playing both sides.) even.

As for the elemental runes, I see no reason to not include them in the total. Sure, there are only 5, but they add to the total. Unless your next comment was what you meant?

patapi wrote:
Alisamakora wrote:So what if the runes show what their respective origin point would have created if they won? And continue towards the brother’s goal unconsciously? They certainly continue their battle, whether against each other or simply war in general.
So, in the case of Suikoden III, it was four true runes against one? Wasn't it hinted that the True Fire Rune might have shown the same images to first Flame Champion as the ones shown to us by Luc's True Wind Rune anyway? So was it an internal conflict between true runes that sided with Order? How about the rest of the true elemental runes that we had on our side? Could it possibly mean that all five elements belonging to the side of Order, after all?
I didn’t say they fought on respective sides, persay. I said they continued warfare. there is no alignment hinted at for any of the elemental runes, so I cannot say if it was anything like what you say. It could be possible, but I could not tell you.
patapi wrote:
Alisamakora wrote:honestly, I think the creation myth is important somehow. it lacks a true "end". the brothers did not die, they shattered and became the earth and sky, in a way, still alive. there was no true resolution.
Isn't the existence of the earth and the sky itself was the resolution of that myth? I had the impression that the myth was first and foremost used to "explain" how the world as we know it came into being.
the fact that they became earth and sky means there was no winner or loser, and no peace was made. it is what would be deemed a "draw" in a duel, and those are usually revisited with plot devices in a story to finish them off.
Also, I stated opinion up there with the "creation myth is important" bit. It could simple be just as you claim, a way to say how the suikoden world came to be.
patapi wrote:More importantly though, I wouldn't be surprised if they start to move away from traditional war between nations and/or factions, and towards these ideals somewhere along the line. After all, didn't one of the major elements in Tierkreis' plot was submission to fate versus free will?
I'll say this now: Tierkries was a strange deviation from the Suikoden norm. I am one of many who hope it doesn’t continue that way. I enjoy the world the previous games took place in, I enjoy the suikoden game mechanics, and I hope they choose to leave Tierkries as is. A standalone as the name implies and not a true sequel.
That is also opinion.
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