New Suikoden as Downloadable Title?

[Ancient Cheesecake]

Really? Because I could have sworn that Final Fantasy IV: The After Years does exactly that...

Does just what? All I've heard about that game is that it's terrible.

It's basically FFIV with a new story and broken into parts. Whether or not it's terrible is in the eye of the beholder, because I'm having fun with the new storyline.

If you think outside of the very small box of RPG innovation, you can do some pretty interesting things.

That wasn't an argument against my statement...

[snakebite105]

I think DLC content is in general a terrible idea and it will most certinly kill the suikoden series.

I also think that having to buy costumes and extra mission packs is also terrible becuase more often then not they are developed as part of the main game then taken away so that they can leach off more money off of the fanbase of w/e game.

Downloading is only good in my opinion when it comes to buying Retro or casual games like Suikoden 1 or Bejeweled. Or games that will probably never make it in retail like Braid.

[LanceHeart]

Downloading is only good in my opinion when it comes to buying Retro or casual games like Suikoden 1 or Bejeweled. Or games that will probably never make it in retail like Braid.

Thing is, we're at the point where it Suikoden might not make it in retail anymore. Tierkreis was a decent stave off of sales decline, but it barely did better than Suikoden V.

It's basically FFIV with a new story and broken into parts. Whether or not it's terrible is in the eye of the beholder, because I'm having fun with the new storyline.

If you think outside of the very small box of RPG innovation, you can do some pretty interesting things.

That wasn't an argument against my statement...

That's because you didn't make a statement that requires countering. You just said you heard the game sucks, not that the content delivery system it uses does. I beg to differ because I'm actually having fun with the game (because I kick it old school, I guess) but the delivery system could use a bit of price adjusting, though Square Enix is known for overcharging from the get-go.

[EternalOnslaught]

I wouldn't be surprised if it became a downloadable title, especially on the PSN via PSP Go. I wouldn't want that though, I would like to actually own a hard copy of the game or any game that I consider great.

[Michael Easton]

Maybe, just maybe, they could release Suikoden 3 on the PSN.

I thought they'd released the original Suikoden on PSN, but I checked this morning and it wasn't there. Am I going insane or have I just done something wrong.

As for S6 being downloadable - I couldn't really care, as long as I got to play it.

[thcrock]

Yes, they did release Suikoden 1 on PSN. I have it, in fact. I assume it should be in the PSOne Classics section somewhere. edit: I see you're from England. Its very possible that its not on the EU store. But you can easily create a US PSN account and download it from the US store.

Suikoden III would be great on PSN, but Suikoden II is more probable. A port of Suikoden II would likely cost less money as the PS3 hardware can easily emulate PS1 games. They could leave the code essentially untouched, and emulate it. Suikoden III can't be emulated, and probably didn't sell well enough to warrant a full port.

[EternalOnslaught]

Maybe, just maybe, they could release Suikoden 3 on the PSN.

I thought they'd released the original Suikoden on PSN, but I checked this morning and it wasn't there. Am I going insane or have I just done something wrong.

As for S6 being downloadable - I couldn't really care, as long as I got to play it.

It might not be impossible to consider that Suikoden 3 may come to the PSP sometime in the near future. It would at least give the chance the gamers in the PAL region to experience Suikoden 3. Even though I own Suikoden 3 on the PS2, I would probably buy a portable version of it, if one ever came into existence.

[Antimatzist]

Suikoden III can't be emulated, and probably didn't sell well enough to warrant a full port.

Wasn't Suikoden III the best selling (or one of the best selling) Suikodens?

[Raww Le Klueze]

Its very possible that its not on the EU store

It isn't.

Wasn't Suikoden III the best selling (or one of the best selling) Suikodens?

2nd best.

[daoster]

That Final Fantasy IV "sequel" was essentially a port of a cellphone game to make easy money for Square.

We're talking about a full on game here, not a game that uses the same graphics as its predecessor (FFIV The After used the updated sprites from the GBA game), and was intended as a cellphone game. What worked for FFIV: The After might not necessarily work for Suikoden, especially since it's a fairly obscure series.

I don't think at this point in time, a downloadable full Suikoden sequel will be viable on consoles right now...we've yet to see this occur for any major RPGs (those PS1 RPGs are small compared to PS2 RPGs), and Konami isn't exactly known for trend setting in the gaming world. Yes, I know the Vandal Hearts game will be downloadable, but we'll have to wait and see its quality and length before wanting Konami to do something similar to Suikoden.

Suikoden "side games" like Tactics or Tiekres or even the Gaidens? Depending on the costs of making them, I can see those being side games, but full on sequels, I just don't see it.

[thcrock]

Wasn't Suikoden III the best selling (or one of the best selling) Suikodens?

Suikoden III sold well for a Suikoden, but not necessarily enough for a port. Ports from PS2 are *big* games - for instance, the recently announced God of War I and II ports. God of War is one of Sony's flagship franchises and sold boatloads compared to any Suikoden game. I'd expect to see a port of bigger RPGs like FFX long before Suikoden III.

[LanceHeart]

That Final Fantasy IV "sequel" was essentially a port of a cellphone game to make easy money for Square.

We're talking about a full on game here, not a game that uses the same graphics as its predecessor (FFIV The After used the updated sprites from the GBA game), and was intended as a cellphone game. What worked for FFIV: The After might not necessarily work for Suikoden, especially since it's a fairly obscure series.

I don't think at this point in time, a downloadable full Suikoden sequel will be viable on consoles right now...we've yet to see this occur for any major RPGs (those PS1 RPGs are small compared to PS2 RPGs), and Konami isn't exactly known for trend setting in the gaming world. Yes, I know the Vandal Hearts game will be downloadable, but we'll have to wait and see its quality and length before wanting Konami to do something similar to Suikoden.

I'm sure if they make Suikoden VI in the Suikoden II style (or an updated HD version of the 2D games), it would most definitely be possible to make a full Suikoden game for PSN without breaking the bank. As for "episodic" retail-sized games, I'd point you to a few examples (both upcoming and past).
Fable 2; Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness; Siren: Blood Curse; Wallace & Gromit's Grand Adventure... Short of Fable, most other episodic games are very seldom games from huge series. Those games get full retail releases in the first place.

Suikoden has the distinct advantage of having already seen a system where the game is divided in episodic content with mutually exclusive storyline progression. A similar system could once again be called upon if they were to make yet another such game (I'm obviously referring to the Trinity Sight System).

[daoster]

I'm sure if they make Suikoden VI in the Suikoden II style (or an updated HD version of the 2D games), it would most definitely be possible to make a full Suikoden game for PSN without breaking the bank.

Sure thing. But I wouldn't hold my breath for THAT. They didn't even make the DS game 2D, so fat chance they'll make a next-gen RPG 2D.

As for "episodic" retail-sized games, I'd point you to a few examples (both upcoming and past).
Fable 2; Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness; Siren: Blood Curse; Wallace & Gromit's Grand Adventure... Short of Fable, most other episodic games are very seldom games from huge series. Those games get full retail releases in the first place.

Fable II is a disc game...DLC with added content doesn't count. Penny Arcade is well known enough in the internet world, and Wallace & Gromit is a popular series (for kids)...

Suikoden has the distinct advantage of having already seen a system where the game is divided in episodic content with mutually exclusive storyline progression. A similar system could once again be called upon if they were to make yet another such game (I'm obviously referring to the Trinity Sight System).

But is Konami interested in going back to that story method? Trinity system was only unique for III and they sure don't seem interested in going back to that model of story telling, as shown by IV, Tactics, V, and (I can only assume), the DS Suikoden.

In the end, anything can happen. Konami COULD make a Suikoden VI and break it up into episodic content and release it, but I don't see it happening. In fact, I'm willing to bet that we're more likely to see a man series Suikoden on the PSP or DS (or both) before they consider making it DLC. Why make Suikoden II graphics hopped on steroids (HD), when you can simply make Suikoden II graphics for the PSP or DS? Or if they wanted to go 3D Ala, III, IV, or V, the PSP can easily handle any of those types of 3D (the DS might be a bit harder).

[LanceHeart]

I'm sure if they make Suikoden VI in the Suikoden II style (or an updated HD version of the 2D games), it would most definitely be possible to make a full Suikoden game for PSN without breaking the bank.

Sure thing. But I wouldn't hold my breath for THAT. They didn't even make the DS game 2D, so fat chance they'll make a next-gen RPG 2D.

And that got the game some mitigated reviews on the graphics side, especially since it followed up Final Fantasy IV and Dragon Quest V's releases which put the game's meager 3D to shame.

Konami isn't much different from any other company, though. Capcom was crazy enough to allow their head of R&D make Mega Man 9 into what it was.. and this was after Mega Man 8 and Mega Man & Bass were in "32-bit" and the game had just gotten a flopped 3D remake (on PSP). Don't ever count out any option until a game's screenshots are seen for the first time.

As for "episodic" retail-sized games, I'd point you to a few examples (both upcoming and past).
Fable 2; Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness; Siren: Blood Curse; Wallace & Gromit's Grand Adventure... Short of Fable, most other episodic games are very seldom games from huge series. Those games get full retail releases in the first place.

Fable II is a disc game...DLC with added content doesn't count. Penny Arcade is well known enough in the internet world, and Wallace & Gromit is a popular series (for kids)...

Yet none of those are big enough for an actual retail release... But they're bigger than Suikoden? This logic eludes me.

Suikoden has the distinct advantage of having already seen a system where the game is divided in episodic content with mutually exclusive storyline progression. A similar system could once again be called upon if they were to make yet another such game (I'm obviously referring to the Trinity Sight System).

But is Konami interested in going back to that story method? Trinity system was only unique for III and they sure don't seem interested in going back to that model of story telling, as shown by IV, Tactics, V, and (I can only assume), the DS Suikoden.

Again, never say never. It's hard to make stories that are coherent enough to work through a multiple point of view system, but we still see games sport it.

In the end, anything can happen. Konami COULD make a Suikoden VI and break it up into episodic content and release it, but I don't see it happening. In fact, I'm willing to bet that we're more likely to see a man series Suikoden on the PSP or DS (or both) before they consider making it DLC. Why make Suikoden II graphics hopped on steroids (HD), when you can simply make Suikoden II graphics for the PSP or DS? Or if they wanted to go 3D Ala, III, IV, or V, the PSP can easily handle any of those types of 3D (the DS might be a bit harder).

Suikoden I&II sold so poorly on the PSP that Konami shunned its worldwide release, so that platform is likely out (not to mention the monster competition any RPG will have in the next two years). Suikoden Tierkreis barely made more sales than Suikoden V, but I'm guessing it had better ROI. If they pull another stunt like Tierkreis and don't offer much more content, though, sales (and general interest in the franchise) are likely to go down once again rather than up.

I'm pretty sure any main series Suikoden game would end up either downloadable or will be a last ditch retail effort. With the PS3/360/Wii starved for even half decent JRPGs, just throw a bone at any of them and people will bite far more than on handhelds. (White Knight Chronicles managed to outsell Tierkreis and it's a new IP, so did Valkyria Chronicles in Japan alone)

[daoster]

And that got the game some mitigated reviews on the graphics side, especially since it followed up Final Fantasy IV and Dragon Quest V's releases which put the game's meager 3D to shame.

Konami isn't much different from any other company, though. Capcom was crazy enough to allow their head of R&D make Mega Man 9 into what it was.. and this was after Mega Man 8 and Mega Man & Bass were in "32-bit" and the game had just gotten a flopped 3D remake (on PSP). Don't ever count out any option until a game's screenshots are seen for the first time.

Capcom can pull if off with Megaman because Megaman is a worldwide franchise with over 20 years of history. Sure, there's the .001% chance that Konami will make an HD 2D Suikoden, but there's also a .001 chance that I'll win a million dollars tomorrow. Anything is possible, but whether or not its realistic is another thing altogether. (I should note that I find a 2D version much more likely on a handheld, however). Of course I can't say with 100% certainty that they won't make a 2D HD Next Gen Suikoden, but if there was a bet on it, I'd bet against it.

Yet none of those are big enough for an actual retail release... But they're bigger than Suikoden? This logic eludes me.

I'm kind of unsure what you're trying to say here. Penny Arcade was made by an indie company with little resources. Digital distribution makes sense. Wallace & Gromit is an adventure game, made by a company (Telltale) whose whole business model revolves around episodic and digital distribution. They're also a fairly small company, so releasing it directly to the consumer makes sense.

Again, never say never. It's hard to make stories that are coherent enough to work through a multiple point of view system, but we still see games sport it.

And those games (especially RPGs) are few and rare. Again, there's always the .001% chance that they'll reuse a similar system, but I don't think they will.

Suikoden I&II sold so poorly on the PSP that Konami shunned its worldwide release, so that platform is likely out (not to mention the monster competition any RPG will have in the next two years). Suikoden Tierkreis barely made more sales than Suikoden V, but I'm guessing it had better ROI. If they pull another stunt like Tierkreis and don't offer much more content, though, sales (and general interest in the franchise) are likely to go down once again rather than up.

I'm pretty sure any main series Suikoden game would end up either downloadable or will be a last ditch retail effort. With the PS3/360/Wii starved for even half decent JRPGs, just throw a bone at any of them and people will bite far more than on handhelds. (White Knight Chronicles managed to outsell Tierkreis and it's a new IP, so did Valkyria Chronicles in Japan alone)

Suikoden I&II was released fairly early in the PSP cycle, when its popularity didn't take off yet. Now, the handheld is the second highest selling system in Japan, and before the DSi was released, the PSP was giving the original DS a good run for its money. Valkyria Chronicles 2 is going to be a PSP game, the next Kingdom Hearts game is gonna be on the PSP (Birth by Sleep), and the next "true" Metal Gear game (Peace Walker, according to Hideo) will be released on the PSP. Clearly there is a very bright future for the PSP ahead, and Konami can do a lot worse than releasing the next Suikoden on the PSP. (And maybe to end the argument altogether, they MIGHT just do it as a downloadable title for the PSP, because Sony is really pushing that format of release for the PSP and PSPGo!)

Suikoden Tierkreis sold about 160k in Japan, which is not bad. It doesn't matter if it didn't sell as much as Suikoden V, because if you made a higher profit than V, who cares? To compare some other non-FF, non-DQ RPGs that was released for the DS in Japan: Etrian Odyssey sold only 90k and its getting a sequel. Luminous Arc only sold 60k and that got a sequel. Disgaea DS only sold 50k. In the grand scheme of things, compared to most other RPGs on the DS that weren't released by the giant RPG company known as Square Enix, Suikoden Tierkreis sold well enough, and a main Suikoden can do decent on this platform as well.

Does a DS or PSP game have to sell more than WKC or VC or new IPs on the next gen consoles to be considered "successful" ? It'd be nice if they did, but in the end, if Konami can make a good profit, despite selling less, who cares? They don't consider releasing games on the number of sales, but on the profit they make. And while sales usually equal profit...it's like comparing the sales for Porsche vs the sales for Toyota. Porsche may sell a lot less cars worldwide than Toyota, but it makes a much higher profit margin (HORRIBLE analogy, I know). It'd be interesting to see the profit margin for the DS Suikoden game compared to Valkyria Chronicles. I would imagine that it'd be higher.

In the end, I think we're just gonna go back and forward arguing whether or not we think Konami will release the next game as a downloadable. I personally don't think its possible, and you think it is possible, and I don't think we're gonna change each other's mind, so let's just agree to disagree.