[Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

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Mizuki Shrike

Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby Mizuki Shrike » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:18 pm

Just finished the game today after spending about 60 hours on it. :) My comparisons when brought up will be to Suikoden 1 and 3 since those are the only other ones I've beaten so far.

Likes:
- Lazlo is my favourite silent hero, much above Tir. I like his character quite a lot, especially his trips through the Rune's memories and his death. I liked that he had a heroic ending.
- I liked the developement of the Rune of Punishment and all the timeline stuff given with all the people who had possessed it before.
- Pirate Brandeu was one of my favourite villains in all the Suikodens I've played. Shame I didn't get to see more of him.
- I like that this game went with a unique approach for your headquarters and different world map setup. Change is key to interest, and experiments/variations from the norm are always nice. I like that it was vast while being easy to get around, as well.
- The best graphics of the three games I've played. I liked them a lot.
- Some original villages/locales for the series, primarly the Nay-Kobold Village and Deserted Island. A few new types of characters (the cats and mermaids), ect.
- The ghost ship level was a really nice addition, and I loved the Fog Ship Guide. It picqued my interest majorly...shame I didn't see more of that as well. :P
- TED! This game made me love his character, now I won't dislike him whenever I replay #1. :P It would have been nice to have seen a little more interaction between him and Aldo, though. :P
- The best duel animations yet.
- Ship battles were a cool idea and nice twist on the strategy battles, a welcome experiment away from the norm that fit the theme and tone of the game well.
- VOICE ACTING!!!! Is so much better than silent.
- Seeing the dead governor's body at the end amused me.
- Elenor. That is all.

Dislikes:
- The magic effects and combo/special attacks seem...less cool than #3's. They're mostly pretty lame, with a few exceptions, namely the Soul Eater spells and Lazlo's 4th level spell.
- The sidegames and activities were better than #1 but nowhere as good as #3's. They largely bored me. The confessional room was a cool idea but largely boringly executed. The comment box letters could have been better also.
- Along with underdevelopement in certain story/game points, the characters as a whole were underdeveloped. There were certain cool plot points and ideas brought up, glimpses of the souls behind the characters, and we never got to delve into them or get to know them better. I don't feel like I know the characters as well as I did Geddoe, Chris, ect. That said, I do like certain characters a lot.
- ...But others not so much. So many stars of destiny in this game were lame and useless. Then there were the cool designed characters who never got developed-#3 always gave you a good picture of everyone's personalities at least, whereas 4 just tosses them at you. Oskar, Helgo, Lo Threesome, ect...there were just a lot of throwaway characters in this game.
- The storyline flowed well as you played through it but there was no real build-up of the villains. The whole time you fought Kooluk fleets or Snowe and never got to get to hate Cray or Troy before defeating them. At the end I was like "oh yeah...I've seen these guys once before? Why are they evil again?"
- No explanation of the tree dragon boss whatsoever. It was cool looking, but...wtf was that again?

eldrasidar
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby eldrasidar » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:07 pm

yeah, they got really lazy with the plot and character development.
-The giant tree was summoned by Warlock, and it's nuts were used to create rune shells for all the cannons. It's never explain how the Kooluk got possession of it, or what it was doing at the top of a tower.
-they really only spent time developing about two dozen characters. The rest of them are basically carbon copies of each other with slightly different stats and runes. Even their poses and fight actions were all identical for the most part. Given that you never are required to use more than about 10 characters to beat this game, compared to over 50 in suikoden 3, it's not really a surprise that they aren't well developed. Every other suikoden does a much better job of making sure that you have some interaction with all of the stars of destiny.

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EstrangedIX
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby EstrangedIX » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:44 pm

I can certainly understand why people don't like this one as much as say, II, but I liked it a lot. Just enough was different about it (location, mobile hq, naval battles) to give it a new feel, but it didn't abandon the things that make the series awesome like Tierkreis did.

I liked the story in general, especially the attention given to the Rune itself. If only some of the characters could've gotten as much development... After awhile I realized that it seemed more like an outline than a full story, and at first that bugged me. Then I started catching myself using my imagination to fill in the blanks and was kinda happy about it.

It wasn't until III that I started caring about the ninjas as actual characters, and I also liked the ones in this. Mizuki was way cooler than Kasumi and I took Kate out a lot.

It was nice to see Ted again. I kinda wish I hadn't known about him being there before I played though because that would've been a cool surprise.

The training room was a welcome addition. But the last round sucked before having Silent Lake available. Damn Earthquake wiped out the party almost every time until then.

Something I wish we could've seen was more of the Kooluk perspective. Either like we saw with Highland or a Troy chapter at the end like Luc's would've rocked. And I get what Cray was about, but I think it should've been explained better. I might spend way too much time thinking about the finer points to these games but most people probably don't. I like that we aren't spoon fed everything (that sets this series apart from games like Final Fantasy, imo), but sometimes it just seems too thin.

Overall I'd say IV brought a few good things to the series, even if the game as a whole didn't go over too well.

Oh, and cat shaped houses ftw! :lol:

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Akihiko
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby Akihiko » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:43 pm

I'm currently playing through IV right now and I don't really understand why a lot of critics seem to bash it. I have only played I & II previously, but IV isn't a horrible game by any means. I'm enjoying it a lot (I already have 8 hours in) and despite its flaws I don't consider it bad. Every game has flaws but some people seem to be too harsh on SIV, or rather, they feel the need to compare it to the other games in the series. If you compare it to III or V then no, it won't seem as good, but I like to think of each game on its own instead of comparing it to the others.

The hero is all right but the protagonist usually isn't very developed in each game anyway since it's really up to the player to decide their actions. On the other hand I find Snowe to be a really interesting and likable character, as well as many others (I've taken a liking to Chiepoo personally)

The battles are all right. The combos and runes are still there, and while some people dislike only using 4 characters it's not that big of a deal to me. The sea combat is a really innovative feature that I enjoy.

As I said, it is flawed, like with the sailing. It's very annoying to try and determine which direction I want to go in. But things like that don't determine the overall game for me. I enjoy SIV a lot so far and I'm glad to be playing it. I also recently found the strategy guide for a good price as well.

Ellyos
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby Ellyos » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:21 am

Actually, Suikoden IV is bad and good at same time.

The story is really badly related. Too many shortcuts, and it isn't really a good story anyway.
Travelling with the boat is a pain as well and there are too many random encounters.
About design and graphism, it's not awesome but that could be worse.
And to finish, Lazlo/Hero doesn't really have enough charisma :/


But,
After you get the Teleportation, you remove a good part of the frustrating side of the game : boat travels.
Moreover, I think Suikoden IV is the best one with regard to mini-games. This part of game is very complete. Sure It doesn't have the awesome cooking contest from Suikoden II, but treasure hunting, training room, confession room, crafting system, etc. are just very good.

So yeah, for me, the pleasure started with the Blinking Mirror and I actually found this game good enough.
But really, it wasn't for the story...

herugrim
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby herugrim » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:53 pm

The story in this game is one of my favorite parts. It's the most focused on the real issues (in this case, it's all about the rune). Each part of the story flows into the next very naturally, rather then being interrupted by randomly tossed in character stories, or surprise twists that add artificial length (having to search a lengthy and difficult dungeon for a plant, for instance). It was also realistic. It was initially a political rivalry that was blown out of control by a megalomaniac who lusted after the power he'd rejected years before.

People tend to think it's bad because it doesn't focus on the side characters, but that doesn't make a bad story. Side characters having stories of their own is generally good, but not when it feels forced or random. That's usually what you get in Suikoden, but this game decided to give us one solid story rather then a mass of unrelated side quests.

Also apparently a lot of people have short attention spans and somehow miss all of the references to Cray's past and the former conflicts with Kooluk and the Island Nations. Some of that info is revealed in old books or by recruited characters, but it is clearly indicated in the general conversations. I guess people also like to forget that Troy invaded Razril, that Cray had his own ships still with crews set on a suicide collision with the Hero's fleet, or what he did to the Governor and Ramada, or tried to have Lazlo killed, etc... How easily they forget.

Also I enjoyed the graphics. The colors were dull (or less cartoonish, depending on how you looked at it) but it had some very nice details in it. Cutscenes were animated very well. The special effects for rune spells were unimpressive (at least until you get to the level 4 spells of the advanced (rage, flowing, etc...) runes. Sounds and music were nice. As others have stated just having voice actors was a nice upgrade, and better still that they weren't all that bad. The music was pretty good too. No real standout tracks, but none of it annoyed me either. Also was nice to hear some of the classic music brought back in this one, though it was scarcely used.

And gameplay wise I felt it was damn good. Leveling up was quick and easy so grinding wasn’t an issue. Random battles weren’t that bad because we could still release them when strong enough (and Slash makes them even easier still). The game is pretty easy but that isn’t a bad thing to me. I don’t like games that tend to get frustrating. Learning unite attacks was a bit of a pain but usually was easy to accomplish during side missions like net fishing, treasure hunting, etc…

Wasn’t a big fan of how one gather’s items, though. Having to make accessories and armor from scratch is one thing, but having to become an established trader just to get the raw materials, in addition to farming other components from monsters isn’t any fun. Treasure hunting was a pain, and playing minigames to get rare items was lame. I can’t win the tops game enough to get the old book, and I don’t even want to bother with catching mice on icy ground.

Lazlo had a great story, but I wasn’t crazy about the design either. His haircut is bad, his shorts are too short, but I like the red and black, I like the dual sword fighting style a lot, and the rune of course is awesome.

That about wraps it up for me. While I do enjoy Suikoden V more, IV is definitely just under it on my list. Also it should be worth noting that the story is expanded considerably by Suikoden Tactics.

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:41 am

I'm just done playing S4 for the first time. Here are a few thoughts about it.

- I am very very fond of the idea of piloting your own ship from island to island. It was an excellent way to rejuvenate the Suikoden concept after three games of "let's connect a castle and cross the land". It reminded me a bit of Wind Waker or whatever was the name of that Zelda game, which I played years ago during a summer and had such a nice feeling going from island to island.

- I liked most of the characters, including Lino. He is somewhat reminiscent of the hypermature, benevolent, father figures of Suikoden such as Lepant. I liked the female strategist as well, she was a deep character and very original too. I was fond of Chiepoo, and I can't understand the criticism that was made against Nay-Kobolds in this forum, but then again I am very fond of cats in general.

- I have no ideas if voices were irritating or not: I dislike voices in video games and I muted them altogether from the very start, playing the whole game text-based.

- Minigames were really awesome, especially Ritapon. I became a champion at this game, sometimes turning the PS2 on just to play Ritapon rather than advancing the storyline.

- Evil dudes are great too, for they are not united and shows several layers of evilness. Cray is really great.

- Now comes the major setback: by the time I reached the end of the game, I thought I have played a demo or something. It is RIDICULOUSLY short. They definitely wasted all the potential they had. There are no dungeons whatsoever apart from the ruins early in the game. How come there are no dungeons, labyrinths, bossfights, when you reach the pirates island or when you have to go through trial on the hermitage island? The part when you steal the potion from the elves presents no challenges whatsoever, where it could have been a whole dungeon with a boss fight... Even the final dungeon is small...

- This is one of the reasons why the game is so incredibly easy. All in all, at no point was I challenged. I beat the game very easily. I will only play it again because I want to complete it with all 108 characters this time.

- And for me, the worst thing about the game is that there are actually only a very very very VERY few islands.... the complete world map is just a big blank - or to be more accurate, a big blue... I made the effort to clear as much map as I could, only to find NOTHING! It is especially frustrating since they included a "fog or war", which was a great idea, but a pointless one if there is nothing to uncover! The game should reward the efforts you put into exploration. Here, the only thing you can find is a few islands with treasures, which gets old pretty soon.

If I won the lottery, I would recruit a dozen programmers and fleshen up the game myself... what a waste of potential indeed!

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Jocky
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby Jocky » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:38 am

BrucePrintscreen wrote:I am very very fond of the idea of piloting your own ship from island to island. It was an excellent way to rejuvenate the Suikoden concept after three games of "let's connect a castle and cross the land". It reminded me a bit of Wind Waker or whatever was the name of that Zelda game, which I played years ago during a summer and had such a nice feeling going from island to island.

Yeah okay maybe the Boat Battle system wasn't what we were used to in Suikoden but I for 1 didn't mind it. I missed the normal war battles sure, but I think that incorporating the ship battles into the on land war battle system of 2 would have made an interesting system in SIV just awesome!! And I also think that this should have been the natural progression for SV!

BrucePrintscreen wrote:I was fond of Chiepoo, and I can't understand the criticism that was made against Nay-Kobolds in this forum, but then again I am very fond of cats in general.
I have no ideas if voices were irritating or not: I dislike voices in video games and I muted them altogether from the very start, playing the whole game text-based.

This can be dealt with, with 1 answer. The cats voices in 4 we're HUGELY annoying, nasal and whiney thus giving rise to most of the hatred for the Nay-Kobolds I think. I, like yourself, love cats! But in my opinion they were majorly 'over-exaggerated'? Is that the word I'm looking for? Just poorly represented I think may be the phrase I'm seeking. They could have been handled so much better, I mean, why did Chiepoo look like he had a hump on his back? Could/Would they not have been better as more nimble characters that attacked with acrobatic claw swipes, or more like the original Kobolds that looked human apart from the head and had normal swords? Maybe just me with this thought.

BrucePrintscreen wrote:Minigames were really awesome, especially Ritapon.

I too loved the minigames! Even the silly mouse catching 1 wasn't completely un-fun.......

BrucePrintscreen wrote:It is RIDICULOUSLY short.

Agreed. The game felt rushed. Like it was half-hearted in some areas, especially with the lack of, as Bruce points out, 'dungeons'!

And these are the reasons why 4 is considered to be the worst of the bunch and although I DID like it, 1, 2, 3 and 5 were better. Hell, even tactics beat 4 in some aspects of gameplay. But all in all, they redeemed themselves when 5 came out.

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sticky-runes
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:37 am

The cat kobolds are OK, not the best animal race these games have had, not the worst either. What's annoying is that the designers went for too much cuteness with them. If they were more like the khajiit from the Elder Scrolls games and less like Beatrix Potter characters, that would have been awesome.

I still prefer 4 and Tactics over 5.

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:14 pm

They could be worse, I think, they're nowhere as nauseously kawaii as your average Square character... anyway, I will put things like this: Suikoden IV is the best game of the series, but unfortunately for us we never played it, we only had access to a demo version.

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sticky-runes
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:42 pm

yeah, forget suikoden 6, just give us the finished version of 4 already!!

By the way, the voice acting in this game is actually quite good. They suit the mood of each scene very well, I think, and it sounds better than a lot of other video games (*cough* Resident Evil games *cough*) A lot of the voice actors worked on anime shows like Ghost in the Shell (which starred Kika's actress) and Witch Hunter Robin (which starred Flare's actress), so I liked making the connection between some of the characters. There's only a few characters who sounded off, but they're a small minority.

eldrasidar
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby eldrasidar » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:53 pm

The interesting thing I've found pondering suikoden 4, is seeing how much better ship travel is now in the new Assassin's Creed 4.

This isn't to say that you ought to have been able to fight and pillage ships in suikoden 4, but clearly, the game had a lot of world building it failed to do. the islands were small uninvolved. The ocean was vast and very empty. The characters only half fleshed out at best.

Meanwhile, Assassin's Creed's world is full of adventure, exploration, and challenges. A serious amount of attention was paid into giving the player lots of interaction with their world. While a lot of that interaction is possible only because of the improved performance of newer consoles and the freedom of AC's open world design, many of the basic elements of AC 4's successful world building could have been implemented into Suikoden 4.

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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby Kibit1005 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:05 pm

I like this series, not comparable to Suikoden 2 bec. that was a masterpiece, but Suikoden 4 is also enjoyable.. I prefer the Rune of Punishment over Soul Eater... XD

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sticky-runes
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:59 am

Suikoden 4 is better than Suikoden 2, simply because there's no Chaco or Pesmerga in it. And the major battles aren't dodgy. So there.

EDIT: Clive and Sierra, they can do one as well. I would gladly take ANY of Suikoden 4's characters over those tossers.

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden IV

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:02 pm

sticky-runes wrote:Suikoden 4 is better than Suikoden 2, simply because there's no Chaco or Pesmerga in it. And the major battles aren't dodgy. So there.

EDIT: Clive and Sierra, they can do one as well. I would gladly take ANY of Suikoden 4's characters over those tossers.


Marry me :lol:
No joke, some characters in S4 are really cool. Lino and his daughter are great. Even Kika is interesting. Definitely such a pity they released that game before it was finished...


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