Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

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Sasarai10
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Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:45 am

Apart from the game plot which is pretty small indeed, SIV has tons of side-quests and side-missions to accomplish.

- Treasure Hunting
- Get unique objects via mini-games
- In SIV you have to unlock each Unite Attack
- View all confessions/Bath Scenes
- Net-Fishing (this will take HOURS and HOURS)

And last but not least....try to gather those materials, in order to create unique armors. Honestly, I have spent like 1.5-2 hours in order to obtain a Dragon Scale. :lol:

I believe it's about almost 200 hours of gameplay.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Antimatzist » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:48 am

Because the story is very short. Even with the side-quests (and net fishing is not really a sidequest), you will not spend hundreds of hours with the game. I guess plot-wise, it's about the same length as the first Suikoden which is a short game.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:54 am

Antimatzist wrote:Because the story is very short. Even with the side-quests (and net fishing is not really a sidequest), you will not spend hundreds of hours with the game. I guess plot-wise, it's about the same length as the first Suikoden which is a short game.


I tried to rush both and SI lasted for 5 hours, and SIV for 7. But what about those materials? How much time did you spend in order to drop those Dragon Scales, and Pearl Shells?

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:14 am

The main plot is very short. There aren't any long drawn out missions required for gaining aid from the islands, you literally just land on an island and talk to the leader and they agree to help you and that's it. Except Na Nal, where you have to sneak off and steal a pot of medicine, and that's not exactly a long quest.

And there's very little dialogue. One thing S5 had in its favour was lots of dialogue - lots and lots of talking at the beginning to set up the political situation, and every character you recruit has a fair bit to say about himself or herself. Every single SOD has their own little story that we become part of. Suikoden 4 didn't have that, there are characters who say "oh, you're that guy with the big ship, can I come on board? OK, thanks."

There is a fair bit of content to explore gameplay wise, yes, like fishing and treasure hunting and trading and materials and training, but story wise it's very short, and to a lot of RPG fans, narrative is often more important than gameplay.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Antimatzist » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:59 am

I never bothered to get these materials because it's a waste of time to get them. You don't measure the length of a game by the longest time you could play it; neither do you measure it by its shortest. In average, I'd say I and IV are the shortest of the entire series and III and V are the longest.

Just like sticky said, all the main quests are short and there's very little to actually do in between. The towns are small and once you have Viki, travelling takes seconds.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Sasarai10 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:03 am

sticky-runes wrote:The main plot is very short. There aren't any long drawn out missions required for gaining aid from the islands, you literally just land on an island and talk to the leader and they agree to help you and that's it. Except Na Nal, where you have to sneak off and steal a pot of medicine, and that's not exactly a long quest.

And there's very little dialogue. One thing S5 had in its favour was lots of dialogue - lots and lots of talking at the beginning to set up the political situation, and every character you recruit has a fair bit to say about himself or herself. Every single SOD has their own little story that we become part of. Suikoden 4 didn't have that, there are characters who say "oh, you're that guy with the big ship, can I come on board? OK, thanks."

There is a fair bit of content to explore gameplay wise, yes, like fishing and treasure hunting and trading and materials and training, but story wise it's very short, and to a lot of RPG fans, narrative is often more important than gameplay.


-True dat. Although intro (till you get exiled) isn't so short. Basically to me it felt like as long as from the point you leave Obel till you liberate Obel.
- Oh yeah. SV also featured many optional characters as part of the main plot (Hawsar, Isato, Oboro, Norden, etc.).
- Well, gathering the materials especially, will make you waste lots of time. And trading was more than just trading in this game. I'm sure I made at least a million via trading here. Gordon would be proud of me. :mrgreen:


Antimatzist wrote:I never bothered to get these materials because it's a waste of time to get them. You don't measure the length of a game by the longest time you could play it; neither do you measure it by its shortest. In average, I'd say I and IV are the shortest of the entire series and III and V are the longest.

Just like sticky said, all the main quests are short and there's very little to actually do in between. The towns are small and once you have Viki, travelling takes seconds.


It is a waste, but sometimes I feel like an OCD perfectionist, I need to collect everything. Especially if I have to play a game for years. :|

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:45 pm

Trading was very well done in this game. You buy and sell enough of one material to make another one become available, and these all get used for armoring, so you've got different aspects of the game that develop as you make progress, instead of it being like the other games where you just buy and sell whatever until you make a big wad of money.

It took me ages to get the hang of trading and materials in this game, though. and we don't even get to recruit a trader. They could have come up with a little side story that could work like a tutorial on how to access those materials. Ramada could have been our trader, but he ends up playing spy.

It was also annoying that Warlock was not more involved with the main story. He is the guy responsible for the creation of Rune Cannons, and he regrets doing it and wants to make up for it, but he gets treated like an optional character.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:20 pm

Yeah, especially with his ending. I didn't even really understand it until Tactics and reading on the internet.

@Sasarai: Yeah but by that logic, every RPG could last forever. Like I said, people don't judge a game's length by the maximum they can get out of it. IV also has very few "secrets" and sidequests compared to other games. To me, it really is the Suikoden I of the PS2, as it is by far the simplest - which does not mean I didn't put hudnreds of hours into it.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Sasarai10 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:00 pm

sticky-runes wrote:Trading was very well done in this game. You buy and sell enough of one material to make another one become available, and these all get used for armoring, so you've got different aspects of the game that develop as you make progress, instead of it being like the other games where you just buy and sell whatever until you make a big wad of money.

It took me ages to get the hang of trading and materials in this game, though. and we don't even get to recruit a trader. They could have come up with a little side story that could work like a tutorial on how to access those materials. Ramada could have been our trader, but he ends up playing spy.

It was also annoying that Warlock was not more involved with the main story. He is the guy responsible for the creation of Rune Cannons, and he regrets doing it and wants to make up for it, but he gets treated like an optional character.



Ramada as a trader? Nah...he leaves after some point after all. Maybe Chadli could take care of it as well. After all he's both Armorer/Shopkeeper.

As for Warlock...perhaps he should be part of the main plot,but I think they didn't "allow" him because he was the strongest wizard of the game, maybe? Come to think of it. Crowley, Mazus and Levi were optional.

And yeah they don't give you any hints about how to obtain those materials. Unless you are a "fan" of trading (I doubt there are many) then you'll discover it on your own after some trading sessions.

Antimatzist wrote:Yeah, especially with his ending. I didn't even really understand it until Tactics and reading on the internet.

@Sasarai: Yeah but by that logic, every RPG could last forever. Like I said, people don't judge a game's length by the maximum they can get out of it. IV also has very few "secrets" and sidequests compared to other games. To me, it really is the Suikoden I of the PS2, as it is by far the simplest - which does not mean I didn't put hudnreds of hours into it.


S2 had the most I believe. I play this game in and out since 2002 and I still discover new things on it.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:30 pm

I'd say by sheer scope, III and V outmatch II by a lot. Especially III with its many possible combinations to run the game, there could be a lot of very well hidden details. And V is just large. :D

Nah, don't give Chadli ANOTHER task. I already hated it that he is item and armour shopkeeper. Chiepoo would be the perfect trader.

And Warlock has, in contrast to Crowley, Mazus and Levi, plot relevance, so they should have implemented him better.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:30 am

Antimatzist wrote:I'd say by sheer scope, III and V outmatch II by a lot. Especially III with its many possible combinations to run the game, there could be a lot of very well hidden details. And V is just large. :D

Nah, don't give Chadli ANOTHER task. I already hated it that he is item and armour shopkeeper. Chiepoo would be the perfect trader.

And Warlock has, in contrast to Crowley, Mazus and Levi, plot relevance, so they should have implemented him better.


- SIII was like "3 in 1" (or maybe 3.5 in 1 if we count Thomas as well). You get different lines when you recruit each character with Hugo/Chris/Geddoe/Thomas. And SV lasted about 20 hours when I tried to rush it. About 4 times more than SI. Although SV has a lot of cutscenes so if we exclude them I believe it's about 18 hours of rushed gameplay.
- Basically never understood the purpose of a trader in your HQ, apart from the fact to complete your "shopkeepers collection". Chiepoo would be good indeed. He runs a "shop" as well, when you get exiled from Razril. Actually Chadli wasn't the only armorer. Adrianne, Phil, and the mermaids have an armorer's role as well. Each one sells a different kind of Armor. Only difference with Chadli is that you can buy it as it is, unlike with others where you need to gather the materials in order to make an armor.
- Neither Pablo nor Warlock took part in the main plot. Even if Pablo was a non-optional recruit he wasn't a part of the main plot. As for Warlock you won't be aware of his existence unless you speak to Pablo after liberating Razril.

SIV plot was more focused around ROP mostly instead of Rune Cannons after all...

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:07 am

Antimatzist wrote:
Nah, don't give Chadli ANOTHER task. I already hated it that he is item and armour shopkeeper. Chiepoo would be the perfect trader.

And Warlock has, in contrast to Crowley, Mazus and Levi, plot relevance, so they should have implemented him better.


Oh yeah, forgot about chiepoo - he actually does become a trader in Tactics! and Ramada was just pretending to be one, so that wouldn't be much help...

Yes, Having Warlock involved with the main plot would have been a good move. Crowley and Mazus were just really powerful wizards that you find in caves, with no story. You'd think that in a world where magical powers exist, the most powerful magicians we encounter would have a greater impact on things occurring in the world. And by summoning that tree, Warlock had a tremendous impact on how wars were being fought.

SIV plot was more focused around ROP mostly instead of Rune Cannons after all...


Indeed. We got a decent amount of exposure for the ROP, and I like how S4 gave us some sort of relationship with the rune, by experiencing those visions of the previous bearers, and the whole Ted scenario drew some parallels between ROP and Souleater, which was nice for veteran Suikoden fans.

A bit more focus on Rune Cannons would have been nice. In the beginning of the game, we don't really get an explanation of them, we are just made aware that they exist and get used for naval warfare, and then by the end of the game we find out that people don't like them and they get banned. The biggest Rune Cannon was used to devastate an entire island, and hardly anything is said about it. There should have been a mission to head to Illuya and battle the occupying Kooluk troops, instead of Illuya being an optional area.

Tactics also explains a lot more about Rune Cannons, but if Pablo and Warlock had bigger roles in the main story it would certainly have beefed up Suikoden 4's lore a bit more.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:08 am

sticky-runes wrote:A bit more focus on Rune Cannons would have been nice. In the beginning of the game, we don't really get an explanation of them, we are just made aware that they exist and get used for naval warfare, and then by the end of the game we find out that people don't like them and they get banned. The biggest Rune Cannon was used to devastate an entire island, and hardly anything is said about it. There should have been a mission to head to Illuya and battle the occupying Kooluk troops, instead of Illuya being an optional area.

Tactics also explains a lot more about Rune Cannons, but if Pablo and Warlock had bigger roles in the main story it would certainly have beefed up Suikoden 4's lore a bit more.


But when Illuya was destroyed there wasn't a Rush Army yet (pardon me, but I don't remember their official Army's name. I just named it Rush, so I'll go with it). Just a few troops in Obel, and by the time they couldn't leave the island. When Illuya becomes available, it appears to be a ghost town without troops, but surprisingly enough you will encounter Kooluk troops as random enemies. Same thing with Na-Nal, where you STILL encounter Kooluk troops, even after they left the island, which is pretty weird. Although you were supposed to head to Illuya early in the game for a special mission (when it's still inhabited). So I'd say it's "semi-optional".

As for Tactics, yeah I remember they were focused more around Rune Cannons.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:14 pm

@Sasarai: Iluya is occupied by Kooluk troops, they even have an outpost there. It was supposed to serve as Kooluk's entrance to the island nations - again something which isn't fleshed out. It even is an optional are. I would have preferred had you seen Iluya BEFORE the attack - e.g. by doing Brandeau's attack on your way back. That way, you would have felt a lot more attached to it.

Same with El-Eal, I agree that maybe a reconnaissance mission before at some point would have been great. There are so many missed opportunities. Brtholomes supposedly is a wanted man, Kooluk set 100.000 Potch on his head. Amazing sidequest? Nope. Read about it in the papers and talk to him.

And the only time rune cannons are in a story focus in IV is when you talk to Pablo after you recruit Warlock and Pablo says, that you should stay away from the muzzle, alluding to the dangers of them you see in Tactics. Wow.

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Re: Why people say Suikoden IV is a short game?

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:31 pm

A quest where we team up with Bartholemew to take down some Kooluks would have been awesome. It could have been the mission we needed to gain support from Nay, instead of just going there to talk to the chief and recruit a couple of cake shop owners.

The Illuya tragedy should have had more of an impact on the story. As it is, Illuya's destruction really only serves as Kooluk's impending attack against Obel and the other islands.

The quest for Middleport was daft as well. Show up and kill a monster that turns out to be the lord's pet. Why would a fop who runs the most fancy looking city in the Island Nations even own a kraken that wants to sink ships approaching his island?


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