Defense from armor and magic spells do nothing?

[KFCrispy]

I recently started replaying this game in New Game + mode, and naturally that meant that I had much better equipment at my disposal right from the start. But as I started to play, I noticed something... My character had 168 defense, but he was taking 15 damage from enemies early in the game. "What gives?" I thought. I mean seriously, you'd think at 168 defense that SOME of that damage would be mitigated. So I tried removing his armor, and guess what? Enemies STILL did 15 damage to him per hit.

Armor in this game does nothing! How did a bug like that get past the game testers? And it even applies to stat-boosting spells, meaning that Clay Guardian is 100% useless! Am I the only one who's noticed this? I'm sure I can't be the only one, yet I don't see any mention of this fact anywhere in any guide. That really needs to be changed.

....
Defense boosts of any kind literally do nothing. This applies to enemies and allies alike (which becomes readily apparent when you fight enemies who cast Clay Guardian, when you still do the same damage regardless of Clay Guardian status or not). The base defense stat actually does something, but armor and Clay Guardian-type skills and items do not.

I don't think there's any point in deriding the game for changing the Suikoden formula (3 did too, and it gets as much love and hate as 4). This is an actual issue with the gameplay engine, not a qualm about how the engine is different from past games.

Can others test/verify this?

[Runemaster]

Whoah!!! This is a big deal for me.. As far as I remember, they do have effects..

I'll try this if I have time..

[Raww Le Klueze]

As far as my limited testing can tell there's nothing particulary wrong with it.

Using Hero at Lvl 99 against Kooluk Soldiers at El-Eal stairs I got the following results:

Without armor

Hero has a DEF of 132 which is equal to his PDF.

Defend vs Not Defending (casting spells or using items)

While Defending he recieved 57 HP damage
While not Defending he recieved 197 HP in damage

Clay Guardian:

While not Defending and Clay Guardian in effect he recieved 139 & 146 HP in damage
While Defending and C.G in effect he recieved 75 HP in damage.

With the best available armor to me

Hero has a DEF of 310

Defend vs Not Defending (casting spells or using items)

While Defending he recieved 33 HP damage
While not Defending he recieved 62 HP in damage

Clay Guardian:

While not Defending and Clay Guardian in effect he recieved 68 HP in damage
While Defending and C.G in effect he recieved 32 HP in damage.

While Clay Guardian does seem to be broken here it may well be that I've simply exceeded the maximum defense value as Suikoden usually caps at 250 for any stat.

Either way, armor clearly has an effect.

[ForGreatJustice]

I'm just curious as to why with Clay Guardian your Hero was taking MORE damage while defending than less, in the first trial setup you used.

[Raww Le Klueze]

I'm guessing the enemy had a critical hit.

[KFCrispy]

or possibly it was a magic-based attack...

[Runemaster]

or possibly it was a magic-based attack...

Magic-based attack? What does it mean?

[KFCrispy]

things like magic spells where damage is reduced by your MDEF and possibly your elemental affinity.

[Runemaster]

things like magic spells where damage is reduced by your MDEF and possibly your elemental affinity.

oic..
So the damage is not by a normal attack???

[highwind44029]

You know how there are two certain options in the menu called "Attack" and "Rune", right? "Attack" = physical damage. "Rune" opens up a menu. If you have let's say a Fire Rune equipped and you choose any of the spells there, that = magic damage. Is that clear enough?

[Runemaster]

You know how there are two certain options in the menu called "Attack" and "Rune", right? "Attack" = physical damage. "Rune" opens up a menu. If you have let's say a Fire Rune equipped and you choose any of the spells there, that = magic damage. Is that clear enough?

But hey, Raww should've said that it was magic. Initially, anyone would think it is a normal attack since is the most basic form of inflicting damage.

[highwind44029]

There could be attacks that look like physical attacks but actually deal magic damage. The Giant Crab at the Deserted Island spits fire, and damage seems to be reduced by MDF (Eugene took like 180 damage while Maxine took 90), but Vengeful Child doesn't block it out.

[KFCrispy]

But hey, Raww should've said that it was magic. Initially, anyone would think it is a normal attack since is the most basic form of inflicting damage.

Raww was not testing magic, he was testing physical defense because armor increases physical defense only. only a few armors boost MDF.

[Raww Le Klueze]

Well it's rather moot in any case as the whole idea of it being a magic attack sort of hinges on the idea that I'm a big enough of an idiot to not be able to tell the difference between a Kooluk hitting me with his sword and casting a spell.

And I can assure that I'm not that kind of an idiot.

[Runemaster]

Well then..
I rest my case.

thanx to all!