FF Tactics

[VinceValentine]

I was just sitting here and all of a sudden I came to think to that Suikoden Tactics does kind of remind me of FF Tactics except... FF Tactics is better... so I then came to the conclusion that maybe Suikoden Tactics or "Rhapsodia" as some would call it... is a rip off game of FF Tactics... I noticed in some instances that Suikoden "tries" to be like Final Fantasy but it fails miserably...lol

[KFCrispy]

that's an opinion and is not a gameplay question. i'm moving this to the General Discussions forum for the flame war..

[LanceHeart]

That's funny, 'cause Final Fantasy Tactics is basically a ripoff of Tactics Ogre which, coincidentally, was made by the same team (Quest, who made Tactics Ogre, was bought by Square and forced to work like little monkeys on Final Fantasy Tactics instead of advancing and expanding the Ogre world)

Lest we not forget that the origins of SRPGs stem mostly from Fire Emblem, "Famicom" Wars, and the Shining Force franchises.

So yeah, that covers all the bases and should make it overly hard to say that every Strategy RPG game is a ripoff of FFT.

[thcrock]

Every SRPG is a ripoff of every other SRPG that came before it. There, I said it.

I do agree that FFT is a better game. More attention to detail was given to FFT - its a longer game, with much better gameplay systems. Suikoden Tactics just felt rushed in every way.

But keep in mind Suikoden Tactics wasn't Konami's first SRPG. Both Vandal Hearts games came before it, and the first one actually predated FFT. I've heard before that Vandal Hearts was the first SRPG for the Playstation, though I'm not completely sure of that.

[LanceHeart]

I think you heard right. Vandal Hearts was basically released at around the same time as Suikoden and VH2 around the same time as Suikoden 2. Konami isn't a stranger to SRPGs, but it truly feels like Suikoden Tactics was some strange attempt to capitalize on the Suikoden name.

[patapi]

Yet it's not a first spin-off in the series. They made Card Stories and two volumes of Suikogaiden to capitalise on Suikoden's popularity back then, and with Rhapsodia, it was only another addition to the already established library of playable merchandises.

Too bad that Rhapsodia was way too good that it got localised and being dubbed "Suikoden Tactics", which led to this rip-off-of-Final-Fantasy-Tactics label on this side of the planet.

[VinceValentine]

Um excuse me? I didn't intend to start a flamewar or for anyone to start one with me... but continue to think that... i'm pretty surprised to hear something like that coming from a mod of all people. Anyway... i just want to point out that i havent played Vandal Hearts but i have played Orge Tactics and Fire Emblem but i have also played Shining Force... all the old ones... including Neo... but i havent played EXA yet... mainly because... well Neo was flat out horrible with its hack n' slash type combat system... rather then the classic tactical battles that the older ones graced us with... i did like Neo because of the storyline... although the voice actors were hideous during the dialog's. Well anyway... don't confuse me with everyone else on this side of the planet... i know more about games then what appears and i don't spout nonsense or make false speculation about a game... heck i write guides on games... but my point was FF Tactics and Rhapsodia are both very simuliar and it seems like some ideas were taken from FF Tactics and put into Rhapsodia or atleast thats what i noticed. I think Konami really shouldnt make anymore Suikoden tactical games though... Rhapsodia didn't really cut it for me... and kind of made Suikoden IV look worse... but... in reality though, FF Tactics is a rip-off of Fire Emblem.

[thcrock]

I'm not sure that Suikoden Tactics seems that much taken from Final Fantasy Tactics than any other SRPG. To me, it resembles Vandal Hearts more, if mainly for its simplicity. FFT's gameplay system is an open-ended customize-fest, where ST keeps you on the straight and narrow, just like the regular Suikodens. As patapi pointed out, the North American name sure makes it sound like an FFT ripoff, and the graphical style looks a lot like FFT, but further than that I don't see any similarities between the two games that aren't also true for most SRPGs.

My opinion of Suikoden Tactics' faults isn't that it borrowed too much from other SRPGs, just that it was too rushed to expand on the ideas they did have.

[VinceValentine]

Yeah i know... to be honest for a strategy RPG, Suikoden Tactics(Rhapsodia) sucked compared to most if not all the other strategy RPG's out there and come to think of it i didn't even end the game because it wasnt really that fun... and you are DEAD ON... it was rushed... I think they rushed to make it so that they could make Suikoden IV look a little better... but in the end it kind of made the game look even worse and they should've just kept the events of Suikoden IV the way they were instead of making the events continue with Rhapsodia... but i just think they did that to make Suikoden IV seem longer since Suikoden IV itself was extremely short, so Suikoden IV was kind of like a start up game, and Suikoden Tactics was kind of like the sequel to that.

Oh and by the way originally i wasnt saying that just because its called Suikoden Tactics means it was a rip-off of Final Fantasy Tactics... names hardly mean a thing when it comes to stuff like that... its a little bit of the gameplay, battle system, and especially the graphics... the way the 2D sprites looked... kind of like FF tactics 2D sprites...which at first made think that S.E was involved. >_> I guess all those simuliarities are in most strategy RPG's... but not as visaully simuliar like with Suikoden and Final Fantasy tactics, which was the main point i was trying to make... and since i havent played Vandal Hearts i can't really say if Suikoden Tactics is like that or if its a rip-off of it... I don't make judgements or comments on things i havent experienced for myself because that would be stupid.

But all in all Patapi is probably right about the names and it throws people off into thinking that since Final Fantasy was made into a strategy RPG which was part of the series itself but had no real connections... not like FF10 and FF10-2 anyway... that it made people think that Konami probably tried to copy that into making Suikoden Tactics but that had a strong connection with Suikoden IV, but its really just all meaningless rumor and speculation that people make just about everything nowadays.

[EternalOnslaught]

Since this topic is Final Fantasy Tactics, and my comment has nothing to do with the current conversation, so I apologize, but it's better than making another topic.

I am just curious what everyone thinks about the port of FFT to the PSP and apparently Balthier(FFXII) will make an appearance this time.

[Futagi]

Final Fantasy Tactics is being ported to the PSP?! Is it the original or Advanced?

As for the other conversation, haven't played Rhaspodia yet, but having played Final Fantasy Tactics I would actually say Suikoden II actually has some (note: very little) resemblence to it in terms of story. For example, [spoiler] both involve a set of best friends, one who is the main hero of the story and the other who will eventually turn against you and manipulate politics his own way. Said best friend in both games also goes on to marry a princess to gain power. [/spoiler]

[EternalOnslaught]

I believe it is a port, but from the info gathered they added a few things, such as two new job classes.

Dark Knight
Onion Knight

They're calling it Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions, or something.

[LanceHeart]

Having played the Japanese release of the PSP FFT, I can say that the game is basically the same as the Japanese version of the PS1 version with a lot of additions (some of which are simply tacked on).

Balthier and Luso are fun to play with, Balthier being a combination of Engineer, Thief and... well.... Balthier. Luso is basically a weaker Ramza clone.

The other new stuff includes two new jobs (Onion Knight and Dark Knight), CG Cutscenes (with arranged piano music but no voices), new scenes, new equipment, new sidequests, and multiplayer. My personal favorite of the additions is the CG cutscene addition. They replace some of the more memorable scenes in the game and add some excellent depth to the way the characters look.

The biggest gripe everyone seems to talk about is the slowdown when using special attacks that actually hit your opponent (Monster attacks, magic, special techniques, Knight attacks, items...). While it varies between attacks, the average slowdown makes animations go down to two thirds of the original speed (while the special effect speed stays the same). The game's slowdown is in now way game-breaking, but it's extremely annoying to play the game if you're used to the old animation speeds. I've basically learned to not look at the screen anymore when playing because of this.

My personal gripe, since I don't care THAT much for the lag, is the music and sound effects. When playing with good earphones, I notice that a lot of special modulation effects and echo/reverb is gone from every single song and every single special effect. That makes everything sound extremely bland and lowers the sound quality to something on par with early SNES game music.

All in all, I've played through most of the game without looking at the screen nor with the sound on, the polar opposite of my PS1 gaming experience.

I was personally disappointed with the game when I played it, but that's just because I played the original for hundreds of hours when it first came out and I still prefer playing it over the PSP version.

[Oppenheimer]

ave also played Shining Force... all the old ones... including Neo... but i havent played EXA yet... mainly because... well Neo was flat out horrible with its hack n' slash type combat system... rather then the classic tactical battles that the older ones graced us with... i did like Neo because of the storyline... although the voice actors were hideous during the dialog's.

Ug Shining Force Neo is just retched. I also started playing it and can't stand the plot/voice actors. I'm barely started on it but already I think I'll just give up and sell it back. I hear it gets really hard too and with such bad dialog plus bad plot plus difficulty, I think I'll really dislike it.

I am looking forward to FF tactics and I might just buy the PSP for that and the new Silent Hill.

[Sonic]

Ahh, Final Fantasy Tactics would be one of my all time favourite games. Through my various playthroughs I must have sunk well over 200 hours into it, and I still haven't done everything (particularly, I've never bothered with any of the extra characters or sidequests. My loss, I suppose). Something about having a team of blank slate generic soldiers, completely lacking in free will, succumbing to my every desire, as I mold them like heaps of putty into indestructible warriors just gives me... well, a rush. It's the kind of game that you can really make your own, you know? I have a couple of friends with whom I share my passion for FFT, and it's tons of fun comparing strategies and seeing how our teams turn out each time. I'm particularly fond of trickier, subversive units- Geomancers, Oracles, that sort of thing. I'm particularly fond of Monks, as well. It really demonstrates how a strategy game should operate, easing you in with battles in which mashing an enemy's face will do the trick, but quickly upping the ante and requiring you to come up with new ideas and new combinations of skills.

But enough of me gushing. I still haven't played Rhapsodia, (well, I played the first five or six battles and then got bored of it) so I don't consider it fair for me to make comparisons. I'm planning on giving it another go this summer though, during my marathon of replaying all the games.

Also, I'd like to throw my endorsement behind other classics like Vandal Hearts (lovely game, great soundtrack, loads of gore) and Shining Force (SFII being one of my all-time favourites as well, which is unusual since it's such a simple, modest game really). And let's not forget Disgaea. Crikey is that game deep. I prefer Tactics to it, but I've still sacrificed many an hour at the altar of Disgaea.