China

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Eroschilles
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China

Postby Eroschilles » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:06 pm

So, I've been a member for a while. Originally out of Baltimore, MD USA. I'm currently working on my MBA in Shanghai, China.

I was wondering if anyone is in China on these boards.

Also of relevance, The 108 Heroes of the Marsh (or Outlaws of the Marsh depending of the translation). I have spoken with a few Chinese who are vaguely familiar with the story, not many who have actually read it. I have read quite a few classic Chinese stories, 108 heroes I am working through again.

I am debating on the merits of trying to track done the original location of the fortress in the swamp. Though my understanding is it does not exist so much anymore.

Anyways, I was interested in people's thoughts on China's relationship with Suikoden, the original story base as well as fans, as I am studying here until January.

Wolkendrache
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Re: China

Postby Wolkendrache » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:33 pm

I'm neither in nor from China, but I'm familiar with the novel to some extent.
Don't forget that most of the story is fiction, so what's the merit of traveling to Mount Liang in Shandong? Well, I bet it's a beautiful place, but don't expect to find traces of a fortress there.
Anyway, enjoy your stay!
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: China

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:23 am

I am still busy reading the original novel, I'm halfway through the two thousand pages. It is a pure delight. it's fun and full of action, and the characters are awesome.
If I were to live in China for a while I think I would definitely track down the purported location of the headquarters and get a picture there, just for the adventure. That's in the spirit of the heroes of the novel anyway! Please do it and show us :D

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Re: China

Postby Wolkendrache » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:54 am

@Eroschilles: Maybe you'll find a temple with a stone tablet sealed with the inscription "to be lifted by Eroschilles", so you could get the ball rolling again :wink:

@Bruce: Please don't forget to give some feedback (especially your thoughts about what reminded you of the games) in the comparison thread. Enjoy reading!
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Rooks
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Re: China

Postby Rooks » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:11 am

Many of the people I met in China had heard of Shi Hu Zhang, though I only spoke to reasonably well-educated people who could speak English, so that likely skewed the sample. I was never able to track down anyone who owned or had even heard of the fabled Chinese PC port of Suikoden II, which I am not even certain exists. Though, since the majority of my stay was in Dengfeng, which is not as cosmopolitan as some other cities, I was not likely to find PC gamers there anyway. Just kung-fu masters lol.
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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: China

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:08 am

I recently discussed with a European lawyer who has been based in China for ten years. He knows about the novel but never met a Chinese person who knew about it. He says he's a bit disappointed by his Chinese experience because, in his own words, people only think about making money as fast as possible.

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Rooks
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Re: China

Postby Rooks » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:51 am

Hmm. In Shanghai and Beijing, that is kind of true. The capitalist sentiment there is quite strong, but it also depends who you hang out with. If he was a Business lawyer, then yeah, that is all they would meet. I hung out with the more intellectual types and monks, so they had either read the novel or had at least read a synopsis in college. China is a very strange place, and the problems with its government are far-reaching. The major directives are largely to make money, and this skews its own culture. Though, while I was there, there were some surprisingly open discussions about this, mostly from old-guard communists rightly complaining about the growing gaps between the wealthy and the poor, which is much more prevalent there than in Europe or the States.

You ain't seen a wealth gap til you've seen a Maserati blow by a Shanghai hovel so fast it almost blows the walls down.
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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: China

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:03 am

That seems to concur this lawyer's experience. He's a business lawyer indeed, from Italy, with a passion for Chinese culture. Initially he choosed to relocate his business in China, less for the money and more for an opportunity to get closer to the culture he loved. So he's a bit frustrated to meet only money-crazed people. He added that, on top of it, he found Chinese employees to be extremely unefficient, he says he has to be constantly behind their back because they only look like they work hard but actually never get anything done. It was kind of sad talking to him because he seemed so disappointed about his decade in China. It reminded me of all these Japanese people going to Paris because they believe that it's a village with the Eiffel tower in the middle and become extremely depressed when they realise it's just yet another globalised, overcrowded, overexpensive capital city.

Your example of what a wealth gap is totally sounds accurate to me, that's a good image indeed.

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Rooks
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Re: China

Postby Rooks » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:09 pm

Well, it should be a good image, I was standing right there when it happened lol.

China's government accentuates business, money, and the making thereof, to the exclusion of most everything else. This is because it wants to bee seen as a world leader, but this -of course- makes other world leaders question it and in the end it harms their reputation. That focus has predictably begun to erode much of China's older culture and history. Though Mao's "Cultural Revolution" didn't help this either. Oddly, old-guard communists are uniting with some social conservatives and young democrats to try to change this. After that poor two-year-old girl died after being hit by two separate vans, and left for dead, there were massive protests. Really, these problems are something most people are aware of and they cannot be covered up for much longer. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/world/asi ... dler-dead/

This is one of the reasons that China will on occasion ratchet up its hateful rhetoric of Japan or other countries. It distracts from domestic problems, and drives a wedge between social conservatives and their sometimes-allies on the democratic left.

I met a number of Australian Business Lawyers when I first arrived in China at Shanghai. They felt much the same way as your Italian friend, or even more so considering how laid-back the Aussies are by nature. Since China basically has 100% employment for most people (though the handicapped are still often forgotten. . . communism indeed.) it is easy to make a basic living, and it is really difficult to fire people. Everyone wants money, but few have any passion for what they do, because large portions of the people go through the capitalism motions in a supposedly communist society. I don't really blame them for being confused.
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Eroschilles
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Re: China

Postby Eroschilles » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:27 pm

Hmm. I'm not sure the cultural apathy comes from just a mixture of the Socialist-Capitalist society. Sure, a majority of business are now State Owned Enterprises (SOEs), but these SOEs are not the iron rice bowl they used to be 40 years ago. It actually may be easier to get fired in China (or as I've seen, asked to take a year off from working) than it is in the US.

Additionally, while they have a huge income inequality issue, China's .46 on the Gini index is not the far from the US's .38. The difference between the US and China is that China's middle class is growing whereas the US's in shrinking.

Back to apathy. I think is a combined outcome from the Shame vs. Guilt culture of asia and heavy handed responses from an autocratic government. From when people would try to help their friends during the culture revolution to also being named rightists, to the thousands of every day laborers who were summarily executed for the attempted assistance to the 1989 Tiananmen Square protestors, to current issues such as when a Good Samaritan was successfully sued by the person he rescued for having misguided idea of saving him. In a culture where everyone thinks "what can I get out of this" or "how do I save face" that is being further enforced by an autocratic government that is more likely to punish you for helping others than it is to reward you.

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Rooks
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Re: China

Postby Rooks » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:03 pm

I am not the be-all-end-all authority on China by any means. So, you may be right. The income inequality thing is vastly more pronounced in China for two reasons, though: 1) inequality in America is not directly relative to the situation in China. As America has massive inequality, but it stems from the super-wealthy being ridiculously super wealthy. So much so that two hundred years of accumlated inherited wealth builds up, while the poor are not nearly as poor as they are in China. 2) China jukes it stats. Always. Always. Always jukes it stats when it knows the world is watching. Crime rates in Beijing are vastly higher than are reported to international organizations. And abuse has been documented by the Chinese government's use of currency manipulation, much to the detriment of its own people.
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