Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

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sticky-runes
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Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by sticky-runes »

This is NOT intended to be a nerdy war between two fan bases, by the way. Just thought it would be interesting to open a topic discussing any similarities or comparisons between the two fantasy franchises. Thoughts on characters, events, relationship themes, races, mythology, any other observations you can think of. Are there things in Suikoden that you like better than LOTR, or are there things you prefer about Tolkien? I assume a lot of people around here are familiar with Tolkien's work or the movies based on his books, and if not, feel free to discuss anyway.

So... What would you rather have in your possession? the One Ring or the Soul Eater?
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Hirathien
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by Hirathien »

Both seems to be a real chore.

The Soul Eater devouring the souls of my friends as they perish doesn't seem really beneficial. Nor does it seem very beneficial to go around with the One ring and have a giant eye peering at my every move and I certainly don't find the Nazghûls to be a great bunch either.
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by killerslime »

Both would be more useful if you wanted to be a dark lord as oppose to being a hero but I would choose the One Ring over the Souleater any day of the week.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by sticky-runes »

Well, at least Ted wasn't horrifically deformed like Gollum from years of being in contact with his curse! Both items seem to attract powerful enemies, but the ring corrupts the bearer's mind and body as well, so that would probably suck a bit more.
LogaN
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by LogaN »

Suikoden much better ~_~!...

I Love So Much Suikoden...
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by Wolkendrache »

Late, I know, but anyway...

What they have in common is that they put pieces of various legends and myths together to form a new saga. It seems that in Tolkiens universe there are exclusively elements of western tales, whereas Suikoden adopted both eastern and western elements including some of Tolkiens ideas (elves, dwarves, and Orcs in S1).
Other than that, both Galadriel and Leknaat support the main character with their wisdom, and both state that the heros actions solely will form his own (and the world's) fate. Also, in the course of each story both heroes get assistance of a variety of different races and nations and individuals (Frodo is supported by the elves of Rivendell and Loth-Lorien, Rangers of the north, Riders of Rohan, Gondorians and so on). But I don't think these similarities are deliberate.

I wonder why there's no Gandalf in Suikoden: the most powerful wizards are totally cocky (Crowley, Mazus, Levi) instead of friendly and humble. Moreover, both in LOTR and Shuihu Zhuan (the original Suikoden novel) the main hero is not a fighter. This concept would be unattractive in games, since players want to dish out some serious damage :-)
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sticky-runes
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by sticky-runes »

I think Zerase and Luc were more like the Gandalfs of Suikoden. I like to think of Hellion as sort of a Gandalf figure as well, even though she doesn't get any major events. Crowley and Mazus never show up until really late when you've practically finished the game, so I don't count those guys :p

Windy is the Saruman.

Ted could be the Bilbo Baggins!

Lino En Kuldes was Suikoden 4's Aragorn - he practically has the same ending from Return of the King. Graham Cray was Gollum.

I think Lepant was more of a Theoden.

Craig Laden was sort of an Eomer.
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by Wolkendrache »

Luc is cocky and unfriendly as well. But yes, since Gandalf s the most powerful and wise wizard, he would definitely share the same star as Luc and Zerase.
I agree mostly:
Windy, like Saruman, was once a force of good.
Ted and Bilbo passed that fateful thing on to the hero.
Theoden makes me think of Maximilian. Must be the age.
Aragorn becomes the new leader of the country, so Lepant and Lino come in mind.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by sticky-runes »

You can't just compare characters because of their age and sex. It's the roles they play as well!

I compared Lepant to Theoden, because Lepant was willing to sit back and let the Empire do their thing, until a certain event happened that caused him to snap out of it and take charge and become a major player. Theoden was influenced by a wicked adviser, while Lepant was just worried about his wife, but they both go from sitting idly by to stepping up and fighting for a greater cause.

Lino En Kuldes, like Aragorn, doesn't come across as a king when we first meet him, but he does play the part of a ruler when the situation calls for it.
I think the kids from Razril were expecting Obel's ruler to be some old fat guy in a fancy outfit, like Lord Vingerhut, and you even get the option to ask Setsu if he is the king. Instead it turns out to be the scruffy bloke they mistook for a common dockworker or beach bum. This feels kind of like Suikoden's take on Tolkien's "look foul and seem fair" reference when the hobbits meet Strider (Though Lino certainly doesn't look foul to me!)
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by Wolkendrache »

The delusion of the king by an evil magician makes me think of both Theoden and Barbarosa, although I know that only Theoden was really deluded. I found it so cool when Barbarosa revealed that he was immune to Windy's magic, but was deluded by the love for her resemblance to his ex-wife.

To reject your allegation of age or sex based comparisons: what about Luserina and Faramir? Both break the loyalty to their father, being convinced that the hero is doing the right thing.

I know this had to do with the delusion of Theoden, but Eomer, after being banned, decides to fight his own war along with some loyal followers, and joining other heroes, comparable with Miklotov and Camus. It may be superficial again, but all of them were heavy armored cavalry knights.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by sticky-runes »

Luserina and Faramir is a good one.

I compared Craig Laden to Eomer because of the way he shows up with the cavalry when you're defending the castle. It's been ages since I did it the other way, so I can't remember how it plays out if you go into hiding, but defending the castle from Godwin and Armes felt a bit more Helm's Deepish. I can't remember if Eomer was supposed to be banished in the books? But having him isolated from his family in the movies gave a similar feeling to Craig not responding to us when we needed his help against Armes. I suppose that makes Georg Prime the Gandalf, since he's the one who manages to bring us the cavalry.
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by Wolkendrache »

Now that you mention it, I had a similar feeling, like "yes!!!", when Craig and Eomer arrived to support the other forces.

And also obviously Gremio and Sam. Gremio even calls the hero "young master". I haven't read LOTR in english, but it should be something similar, like "master Frodo". Sam is told by Gandalf to always follow Frodo on his journey, while Gremio's task given by Teo is always protecting his son.

Due to his superiority, I always had the feeling Gandalf is babysitting. Same with Georg, so I agree.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by sticky-runes »

Genoh reminds me of Treebeard, because he takes things veeerrryyyy slooowwwwlllyyy...... I could practically hear John Rhys-Davies' voice in my head whenever I read Genoh's dialogue.

Which gets me thinking...

Maybe it should have been a gathering of giant tortoises who tore Hatred Fortress apart? I would much rather have them than an army of beavers :p
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by Wolkendrache »

hahaha!!! Great image!!!
We also have an eagle, or something like that, thanks Feather.
Gandalf's horse isn't comparable with Sigfried, but it definitely has a godspeed rune attached, so it would share the same star as Stallion.

maybe a little off-topic: In Tolkien's Silmarillion there's a powerful female human warrior called Haleth. When I read it, I always thought of Hazuki. That's why I'm confusing Haleth and Hazuki whenever I play Suikoden 5.
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan
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Re: Suikoden vs Lord of the Rings

Post by tovath »

If you go by plot archetype, Gandalf shares the same position as Odessa. That of mentor whose death spars the hero on.
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