Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

In-Depth topics that fail to give reasons for their hypotheses.
Antimatzist
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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:08 am

which means, since we don't know exactly what happened, it's a 50-50 chance of going the other way

Na, not entirely correct, the chances might be 60:40 as well ;P

But mostly, I agree with Mio. There's little reason to leave the Island Nations, he can live a calm life there, I mean even Chiepoo did not seem to notice him on his Island! The only one knowing that Lazlo was there was Lino. And if the Deserted Island would become full of people one day, there are enough other Islands to flee on. And I don't think he's searching for adventure, because Lazlo wouldn't risk to die and let the RoP go free again.

And I guess a Wodden Amulet given to him from his friends a long time ago... it would be way to precious. It's a treasure to him. The only thing remembering them except for his Cursed Rune.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Mio » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:22 am

that's a big difference you're pointing there HMP <_<

lol

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Runemaster » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:42 am

What if...........


The WINGERS stole it from Lazlo!!! hahaha.

And then Genoh's idea applies!! yippee! he/she failed to pay the inn's bills and traded the amulet!

OR! he/she sold the wooden amulet to the shop!

OR! ....ok, that's enough fanboyism. lol!
I will bring Lordlake's fate... to the entire Suikoden World! weeeeeeh!

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Mio » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:31 am

or he'd rather camp out and fish for food instead of owing some storeseller

right?

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Genoh » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:12 am

and I'm saying that you're saying that Lazlo could die, but not before he had made it to Muse to drop off that amulet


Apparently you do NOT understand what I'm saying. There's no reason to believe that Lazlo died before the events of Suikoden II or III for that matter. You keep ridiculing this theory without providing any evidence to the contrary. You just say "Well he COULD have died before then." Well yeah, he could've. But there's nothing stopping him from living to that point either.

1. SIII's 1st flame champ didn't live eternally. nuff said

The first Flame Champion CHOSE to die. If you'll remember, he said goodbye to his friends. He also had a non-cursed True Rune.

2. like i said Tir picked a spot in a backwater village, Lazlo has better choices considering the number of deserted islands in teh Island Nations. He could cast away himself on one of those isles and spend his remaining days there


Yeah, he COULD, but there's nothing that says he has to. Furthermore, Lino En Kuldes could easily find him on the Deserted Island.

3. and you're saying Lazlo also travelled around the world hence the expression parallel. mind you Ted is looking for something, Lazlo ain't (as far as we know) i guess you'd take Lazlo for an excursionist then? dood, the guy barely speaks, we barely know his qualities, now he wants travel the globe? like I said arbitrary

Is there anything that stops him from traveling the world? No there isn't. Then again, you're one of the ones who doesn't buy the 'theory' that Lazlo is Lino's son.

4. Incompetent means a person is not functioning properly, if Lazlo decides to travel with little regards to his financial status = Incompetent
Rikimaru = Incompetent, Viktor = Incompetent (at least in their current situation at a time)
come on, if you run out of money, why not trying earning some first? if you don't = Incompetent


Except they all found way's to get out of their debt. But whatever, this point isn't even that important.

5. The fact is he didn't, war or no war, if it was important, he'd go out of his way to retrieve it immediately

Now who's best friends with Lazlo? So you know for a FACT he'd go out of his way to retreive it immediately? And risk having to use the Rune of Punishment? And Risk it leaving the atonement phase.

7. So you're saying that if Muse is in grave danger and people are gonna die, Lazlo would rather not be there to help cause he's too worried about the RoP? He'd rather turn a blind eye than save lives? Lazlo's such a wuss

Okay, so Lazlo is a wuss for wanting to hold on to the Rune of punishment, so nobody else will have to bear that burden? Yeah. I'm sure. Totally. Great logic there. I like how you always turn to the word Wuss.

But whatever I say, you'll just continue to ridicule my argument. No wonder this board is almost dead.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Mio » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:12 pm

dood, i never said that your speculation is entirely impossible

i gave it a fair 50%-50% chance

but nooo, you were determined that your speculation was the way to go

you never acknowledged any other possibilities presented by me

that's why i keep convincing you that
Mio wrote:one possibility has as good of a fighting chance as any possibility

you on the other hand keeps your mind closed to other possibilities

i never ridiculed your theory, dood where are you getting all of these?

now you're wanting evidence to disprove your speculation??

you have any evidence to prove yours?

here i'm very sure, THERE ARE NO EVIDENCE whatsoever

all you have is a recurring wooden amulet and that's it

the rest is just your assumptions based on what's likely and what's not

1. the FC CHOSE to live a mortal life. whatever are you saying?
Lazlo could very well decide to return the RoP back inside the ruins of Obel, and settle down

2. So what if Lino finds him? Is he gonna threaten him? I don't take Lino as a conniving SoB to extort Lazlo into leading the Island Nations, but hey who knows?

3. dood Yes or No, either he did travel or not. there is nothing to disprove. we don't know Lazlo's personality and what would make him leave the Island Nations. that was my point. you response as though you know Lazlo well enough to determine precisely which decisions he'll make. that's why i made this point

Wait, tell me again what does Lazlo being Lino's son have anything to do about the amulet?

Are you trying to make me look bad? o_O cause it's not working

4. So Lazlo ran out of money and become incompetent as to pawn his amulet? Yes or No
i never said they stayed incompetent for the rest of their lives, c'mon stop assuming too much

5. friends? no dood, anybody who pawned off an object will retrieve it the moment they can IF it is important esp if it have sentimental value. That's a fact

6. I used 'sissy' the first time, try to keep track honey. You're making Lazlo a wuss for missing out on a chance to save innocent lives. How do you know the way the RoP would behave? If you use it in its atonement phase, it will transfer itself? Heck Lazlo used it four times in its punishment phase, and yet it never left him. i wonder why he'd duck out now that it's in its atonement phase.

Oh wait, that was you who said he'd cower like that

--------------------------------
lol don't go to any forums if you can't accomodate opposite opinions

you'd find yourself in an iffy position if you keep a closed mind

oh and call the 'boards' whatever you like, cause guess what...

we don't care *said in high pitch*

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Genoh » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:19 pm

Oh great and Omnipotent Mio...

Genoh wrote:It doesn't have to be. But that doesn't mean that it isn't. So far there is no solid proof on who the owner is. But other than Lazloso far we don't know of anyone else who had a Wooden Amulet before the events of Suikoden II do we? So as of right now, he is the best candidate.


All you are doing is arguing my speculation with "It doesn't have to be that way!"

Well, no it doesn't. Until Konami says otherwise, it doesn't have to be that way. But the last time I looked, this board was for "theories". No theory has to be 100% certain. Otherwise it wouldn't be a theory now would it? Then it'd be an in-game fact. If at the end of the game it said "Lazlo traveled the world, and ended up in Muse where he would leave something behind that would play a role in the death of Luca Blight in the form of a little wooden Amulet..." there would be no reason to be arguing over it.

But the fact remains, there is nothing that says that it CANNOT be the same wooden amulet. We did not get an ending where it said "Lazlo stays on the deserted Island for the remainder of his days." We have not heard of Lazlo's death as of Suikoden II (which would be the cutoff for it to have been Lazlo to have left the Wooden Amulet behind. Since if he died afterwards, it would not affect anything involving the amulet being the same, unless the amulet was found on him.)

New Format:

--Could Lazlo have lived 150 years?
(Yes/No)

--Could Lazlo have left the Island Nations?
(Yes/No)

--Could Lazlo have traveled to Muse?
(Yes/No)

--Could Lazlo have Run out of money?
(Yes/No)

--Could Lazlo have left the Wooden Amulet to the Innkeeper?
(Yes/No)

These aren't all 50/50 shots. These are questions to check if it's POSSIBLE that it's the same amulet.

Because it's possible, the theory is a valid one until someone proves that it's NOT possible. All you've done is prove that it MIGHT not be true. You seem so set against this theory that you try to tear apart my speculation with further speculation, because there is no way for you to invalidate the theory.

Me: Lazlo could live 150 years.
You: Or he could die dood!

Me: It's not unlikely he'd leave the Island Nations.
You: Why would he leave them?
Me: Maybe he got bored? Maybe he just wanted to see other places.
You: What are you BEST FRIENDS with him now?
Me: err, no. But it's still a possibility.
You: He's a silent protagonist! We don't know enough about him to judge!

Me: Lazlo could've left the amulet to the innkeeper.
You: But it had sentimental value! He would've went back for it!
Me: Maybe he didn't want to get caught up in a war?
You: What a wuss!
Me: Because he didn't want to pass on the RoP. One of the few things we do know about Lazlo's personality.
You: BUT HE USED IT 4 TIMES!
Me: And those times were unavoidable for the most part. If he can avoid using it, why take the risk?

Besides that's only one of many reasons he could've not wanted to return to Muse.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Mio » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:48 am

Genoh wrote:Oh great and Omnipotent Mio...

Genoh wrote:It doesn't have to be. But that doesn't mean that it isn't. So far there is no solid proof on who the owner is. But other than Lazloso far we don't know of anyone else who had a Wooden Amulet before the events of Suikoden II do we? So as of right now, he is the best candidate.


All you are doing is arguing my speculation with "It doesn't have to be that way!"

Well, no it doesn't. Until Konami says otherwise, it doesn't have to be that way. But the last time I looked, this board was for "theories". No theory has to be 100% certain. Otherwise it wouldn't be a theory now would it? Then it'd be an in-game fact. If at the end of the game it said "Lazlo traveled the world, and ended up in Muse where he would leave something behind that would play a role in the death of Luca Blight in the form of a little wooden Amulet..." there would be no reason to be arguing over it.

But the fact remains, there is nothing that says that it CANNOT be the same wooden amulet. We did not get an ending where it said "Lazlo stays on the deserted Island for the remainder of his days." We have not heard of Lazlo's death as of Suikoden II (which would be the cutoff for it to have been Lazlo to have left the Wooden Amulet behind. Since if he died afterwards, it would not affect anything involving the amulet being the same, unless the amulet was found on him.)

Mio wrote:which means, since we don't know exactly what happened, it's a 50-50 chance of going the other way

i wasn't the one indulging on labelling which is the "highly possible" outcome

i was well aware of what theories and speculations are, that's why i'm giving each possibility equal chances

and yes, i am exactly sayin that it doesn't have to be that way

it could turn out differently, hence the 50-50 chance

i never negated your speculation nor did i say mine was better than yours

there is also nothing that says that it CAN be the same amulet aside from the fact that they are both 'wood' and both 'amulet'

like I said, 50-50, it's either yours or mine (at least in this discussion)

actually what our ending in SIV is Lazlo being cast off in his death boat

that would've crushed your speculation but Tactics revived him

the amulet was never(?) mentioned in tactics so the best we can do is speculate

no idea nor theory will be "highly possible" unless backed up by solid proof or Konami says anything otherwise

did i ever say anything that assumed authority over the matter or supercede Konami?
---------------
oh honey, don't give me praises, you're gonna make me blush

i never set out to invalidate your theory, dood i gave each scenario a fair chance of possibility

i wouldn't have given each possibility a chance if i wanted to invalidate it >_< duh

my point was if yours was 'highly possible' then other possibilties were presumably 'less likely'

that's why i kept a barrage of other probable scenarios that has a good of a fighting chance as yours
Genoh wrote:Me: Lazlo could live 150 years.
You: Or he could die dood!
and the rest

exactly my point, impersonation is the best form of flattery *_*

in your little dialogue there, did the person named "You" ever disproved or invalidated the person "Me"?
Genoh wrote:You: What are you BEST FRIENDS with him now?

Mio wrote:2. How'd you know he'd get bored? you guys friends or sumthin?

again honey, keep track
Genoh wrote:You: What a wuss!
Me: Because he didn't want to pass on the RoP. One of the few things we do know about Lazlo's personality.
You: BUT HE USED IT 4 TIMES!
Me: And those times were unavoidable for the most part. If he can avoid using it, why take the risk?

oh and so saving an entire city of innocents is 'avoidable' ?

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Genoh » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:34 pm

Mio wrote:there is also nothing that says that it CAN be the same amulet aside from the fact that they are both 'wood' and both 'amulet'


But there's absolutely no evidence saying that they CANNOT be the same amulet.

1. Is there potential for Lazlo to be alive at the time when the Wooden Amulet went into the possession of the Innkeeper
Answer: Yes. He has a True Rune, and there is no evidence that Lazlo ever died.
Assumption: No, he was not alive at the time.
Follow up: Does it have to be Lazlo that gave the wooden amulet to the innkeeper?
Answer: If Lazlo is alive, and still has it on his person, then yes. Else, No.

2. Is there potential for Lazlo to have traveled to Muse?
Assumption: If he is alive, then yes.
Follow up: If he is alive, then there is nothing that would stop him from traveling to Muse.
Assumption: He is not alive, No.
Follow Up: If Lazlo is dead, does he have to be the one that gives the wooden Amulet to the Innkeeper?
Answer: No.

3. Is there potential for Lazlo to have given his Wooden Amulet to the Inn keeper to settle his debts.
Assumption: If he is alive, and visited muse, then Yes. Else, No.
Second Assumption: If Lazlo is dead, someone else could have gotten the amulet.

Also didn't Cheipoo in Tactics, start a business on the Desert Island?

actually what our ending in SIV is Lazlo being cast off in his death boat

Unless you get all 108 stars of destiny, in which case we see Lazlo get up from the boat. Though many have stated that Lazlo is alive in both endings, so I'm unsure as to if it matters if all 108 stars are gotten. But given that you have to have all 108 stars to transfer data to Tactics, it's easy to conclude that the 108 stars of destiny is the Canon Ending.

oh and so saving an entire city of innocents is 'avoidable' ?


Lazlo isn't, the last time I checked, able to predict the future. It's unlikely he would know that Muse would be slaughtered by Luca Blight. As for the war itself, there's no real reason to get himself involved. It's not like Highland doesn't have innocents as well. They're not all blood thirsty Luca Blight's over there.

Furthermore, maybe Lazlo went back to get the Amulet while we were in Toto? It wasn't there, so he just left? Or maybe while we were fighting Solon Jhee's Army, or surveying Ruins with Alex. Or when we were thrown into jail by the nameless Muse Guard. This could go for anyone who left the amulet in the care of the Inn Keeper.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby KFCrispy » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:37 am

this theory is wishful thinking. you're making up an entire story that Konami hasn't even hinted at. if Konami intended on connecting the wooden amulet and Lazlo, they already had THREE opportunities to provide the hint in Suikoden IV, Tactics, and Suikoden V. all of these games touch upon Lazlo and his feats. Suikoden V decides that Lazlo has been forgotten and offers no further information about what happened to him, but both Tactics and Suikoden IV did not say anything about Lazlo venturing further north. in fact, Konami thought so little of this friendship amulet that they didn't even use it in any other part of the games.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby kelvingarinkz » Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:49 am

replying to the possiblity of lazlo leaving island nations, here's my take

referencing to the ending of s4, lazlo is shown to be floating on a boat, with no bags, nothing. then he woke up.
can it be an indication that he's leaving the island ? i mean with carrying no luggage or anything, it is possible that he will have debts in the future ... maybe that links to the Muse incident ?

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:57 am

kelvingarinkz wrote:replying to the possiblity of lazlo leaving island nations, here's my take

referencing to the ending of s4, lazlo is shown to be floating on a boat, with no bags, nothing. then he woke up.
can it be an indication that he's leaving the island ? i mean with carrying no luggage or anything, it is possible that he will have debts in the future ... maybe that links to the Muse incident ?

Actually, that's some kind of sailor-funeral, imo. The ythought Lazlo dead and wanted to get rid of the RoP. He wasn't travelling or something^^

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Runemaster » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:41 am

Nah. He tried to grab the ship's attention. Let's say he did received HIS(?) ship's attention, then a lot could have happened the next days, imaginatively including a travel to Dunan.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby kelvingarinkz » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:50 pm

Runemaster wrote:Nah. He tried to grab the ship's attention. Let's say he did received HIS(?) ship's attention, then a lot could have happened the next days, imaginatively including a travel to Dunan.


i remembered it was HIS ship wasnt it ... hahaha ... or maybe he went madly explorative one day and decided to explore the suikoden world and ended up in the Infinities ... hahaha

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Sagiri » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:23 pm

If there was a wooden amulet 150 years after it was made, wouldn't it be kinda old? If so, how did it get to Dunan?


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