Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

In-Depth topics that fail to give reasons for their hypotheses.
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Postby Sun of a Studio » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:30 pm

I'd have to agree with the Emperor, especially after playing V and seeing how much it alludes to IV. Hope I'm not giving anything away with that.
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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby tactless » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:45 pm

well,i like this theorie.i mean,why not? after all,konami used SIV to tie a lot of ends.
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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby anakputa » Mon May 05, 2008 6:37 am

i love the idea, but if lazlo did not have money to pay for the goods he bought...

he was not claimed as the son of lino or it was not known that he was

if he was claimed, like he will not leave the island nations and did not have to leave the amulet for a couple of antitoxins
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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Genoh » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:55 am

I happen to go with the theory that the Wooden Amulet in Suikoden IV is the same as the one in Suikoden II.

After 150 years or so, Lazlo is likely to have traveled many places. This is probable for many logical reasons:
-Staying in one place very long people would start to notice something about him.
-He'd get bored of the same place for so many years.
-He was regarded a Hero in the Island Nations. Lino wanted him to become the next King IIRC. He couldn't do that, so he'd likely at least leave the island nations.

If he were to travel, it's likely he'd take the guise of a common traveler. As a man without a job (too many people involved). he'd run out of potch sooner or later.

-It's Highly likely that Lazlo is still alive as of the events of Suikoden II. As the True Rune of Punishment would choose a new owner soon after.

-He could've been traveling in the Dunan Region during the Toran Liberation War. Or maybe even soon afterwards.

-He stays at the Inn in Muse for an unspecified amount of time.

-He racks up a bill he cannot pay. So he takes one of his only possessions- a wooden amulet, and gives it to the Inn Keeper as a promise he'll come back and pay his debt (or to pay his debt).

-The three who gave him the amulet likely died a long time before the events of Suikoden II. Noah, the youngest of the three, would've been 165 years old, far too long for her to have lived. And Rita and Rene were older.

-Furthermore Lazlo probably hadn't seen the three of them since the events of Suikoden Tactics. 151 years.

-The Amulet lost much sentimental value. As he had run out of potch, and he couldn't stay in Muse for very long, it seems likely he would've given it up.

It seems there is little purpose into showing Lazlo receiving the Wooden Amulet. But if it is in fact the same one, then it tells who the traveler in Suikoden II was.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Runemaster » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:20 am

Hmm.. come to think of it..

Nobody's gonna make S2's Wooden Amulet so special to the game(and Pilika) just because.

Probably, it has to have some "special" history in some way..

And maybe it IS the Wooden A. of Lazzie..And if it really is true,


Then i'll say it again.

"Destiny" should have something to do of it. (........ugh)
I will bring Lordlake's fate... to the entire Suikoden World! weeeeeeh!

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Mio » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:22 am

Genoh wrote:I happen to go with the theory that the Wooden Amulet in Suikoden IV is the same as the one in Suikoden II.

After 150 years or so, Lazlo is likely to have traveled many places. This is probable for many logical reasons:
-Staying in one place very long people would start to notice something about him.
-He'd get bored of the same place for so many years.
-He was regarded a Hero in the Island Nations. Lino wanted him to become the next King IIRC. He couldn't do that, so he'd likely at least leave the island nations.

1. in tactics he stayed in that island, together with Chiepoo and two other unimportant persons

Ever gone through life unnoticed? Believe me it's possible no matter how long you stay in one place

2. How'd you know he'd get bored? you guys friends or sumthin?

3. Even if he was, why leave the Island Nations? Tir had the same predicament but managed to stay in a backwater village and fish. Nobody in that village recognized him so it's a huge possibility that he'd stayed in the Island Nations

"The mind sees what it wishes to see" - Tom Hanks

though it'd be nice if through some unbelievable fate the two amulets are one in the same

I'd say this is one mystery purportedly left by the writers to boggle our minds

and whaddya know it did !! This thread is proof of that

nice one writers

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby abs » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:17 am

but why would lazlo give something that he had for a very long time? was is not important for him?

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Genoh » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:53 pm

1. in tactics he stayed in that island, together with Chiepoo and two other unimportant persons

Ever gone through life unnoticed? Believe me it's possible no matter how long you stay in one place


Lino had planned to make Lazlo the next King of Obel. Lazlo couldn't do that because of the Rune Of Punishment.

Furthermore, Lazlo doesn't age. The chances of him not getting noticed after a number of years drops because of this. After about 20 years, someone's going to notice he's not aging.

2. How'd you know he'd get bored? you guys friends or sumthin?


Because 150+ years in the same place is bound to get boring after a while. Ted wandered for about that long after his village was destroyed before meeting up with Lazlo. Then he wandered another 150 years before meeting up with Teo McDohl. Given that like Ted, Lazlo had no real responsibilities to tend to like Joshua of the Dragon Knights, it would not be at all surprising if he traveled.

3. Even if he was, why leave the Island Nations? Tir had the same predicament but managed to stay in a backwater village and fish. Nobody in that village recognized him so it's a huge possibility that he'd stayed in the Island Nations


But Tir left Toran. And while he stayed in the village and fished, Gremio was there to make sure nobody bothered him because they WOULD recognize him. Tir left Toran, he could've easily stayed at his family home in Gregminster, but he didn't.

Tir and Lazlo were in fairly similar situations. Both had cursed runes, and both were wanted to lead a nation, and both had lead an army. Tir left Toran pretty quickly. Seeing as Suikoden II takes place a couple of years after Suikoden I. 150 years later, he probably would be nowhere near Toran.

Even Jowy and Riou left Dunan.

As for giving up something important to him, the fact is the sentimental value of the amulet probably dropped over the years as I said before. The ones who gave it to him had long passed. It probably mattered enough to keep it for a while, but then he parted ways with it when he had no other way to leave Muse.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:30 pm

Theres a really easy way to leave a town where you owe a lot of money. Watch for the police and when they arent paying attention, run through the front gate. I find it unlikely that if a man held on to an object for upwards of 150 years I doubt he'd so readily drop it and then not return for it. If he doesnt have the sentimentality to pick back up the object, then its unlikely he had the personal fortitude to not run off then he owed to much money. Plus he doesnt have to worry about being expelled from muse for a long period of time because he could go anywhere else.

Simply put, this theory is just fanboy fantasy.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Genoh » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:57 pm

Your idea of running and bailing on the bill sounds more like fanboy fantasy to me.

Viktor, anybody?

Given that there was a war in the Dunan region, it's possible that Lazlo was unable to return to Muse for the amulet until later. He wouldn't want to be caught up in the war.

The creators of the game obviously had something in mind when creating the wooden amulet. I mean it could've easily been something else. It didn't have to be a Wooden Amulet.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:16 pm

I do not believe i stated the he did run out on the bill, i stated that he could have. What need has an immortal for paying his bills when he can outlive his debtors? It makes no sense. If you want to make the argument that he's "not that kind of guy" then look at what you are saying he did. He received an object of obvious import to the people who gave it to him as a sign of their love and respect for him. So he sells it. Yeah, thats the type of guy who doesnt run out on a bill.

I dont know where you're picking up my statement as fanboyism, as i made no allusion to Viktor, nor did i in any way describe what Viktor did, as he bribed the guards, not waited for them to leave and then run. So dont feel offended when i say that its a fanboy idea, I dont mean to offend.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Mio » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:20 pm

Genoh dude do you even listen to yourself? you're re-explaning yourself all over again

i suggest you not to repeat points you've already elaborated

here we go

1. you say Lazlo won't age because of the true rune right?
Genoh wrote:-It's Highly likely that Lazlo is still alive as of the events of Suikoden II. As the True Rune of Punishment would choose a new owner soon after.

now you say that the RoP would leave him some time after the Dunan Unification War?

now that's mighty convenient for your speculation now was it?

point is, the RoP could leave him at anytime (not an expert on this so not so sure)

and if it does stay with him and secluded himself in any of the countless mini islands in teh Island Nation, it's not impossible for him to live through his remaining days unnoticed

oh come on who are we joking, we have no idea what happened to Lazlo after tactics

change of format
1. Lazlo lives immortally after tactics - 50% (Yes or No)
2. Lazlo leaves Island Nations - 50% (Yes or No)
3. Lazlo ended up travelling through Muse in parallel with Ted wounding up in Scarlet Moon Empire - 50% (Yes or No)
4. Lazlo became incompetent and found himself broke in the middle of his lifelong journey - 50% (Yes or No)
5. Lazlo felt tat the wooden amulet he entrusted to him by his friends is nothing but a hunk of wood - 50% (Yes or No)
6. Lazlo selling his amulet worth 3000 potch as collateral to settle his debts - 50% (Yes or No)
i see a new post so
7. Lazlo couldn't make it back to Muse because of the war - 50% (Yes or No)
-what a sissy, Pilika's family can even take a stroll around Muse and Lazlo can't? Even with the Peace Treaty? want me to quote Tom Hanks again?

you're trying to convince us(yourself) of such an intricate history

sure it could be possible... 0.78125% possible assuming each event was arbitrary

yes the wooden amulet bears siginificance for Suikoden

but you're taking liberty of attaching what significance it stands for

heck it could be the writer's wooden amulet given to him by his grandma

and when an symbolical item was needed, first thing comes to mind was a wooden amulet

it doesn't have to be THE amulet of all time like you're trying to suggest

it could be just a wooden amulet used for plot reasons
Last edited by Mio on Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:26 pm

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! DO NOT QUOTE TOM HANKS AGAIN!

Anyway. I always thought the importance of the Wooden Amulet was that it was still in Riou's possession when you fought Luca Blight, and it was used as a fake powerful object to attract Luca Blights attention so that they could target him. This is pretty unlikely as well, but i think its more likely then this thread.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Genoh » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:13 pm

now you say that the RoP would leave him some time after the Dunan Unification War?

now that's mighty convenient for your speculation now was it?


You misread my point, Mio. I was saying that IF Lazlo died, the Rune of Punishment would've left him. As we haven't yet heard the Rune of Punishment changing owners as of Suikoden III (I was saying as of Suikoden II, as that's all that matters here, since the Wooden Amulet is gotten in Suikoden II.) there's a good possibility that he's still alive.


change of format
1. Lazlo lives immortally after tactics - 50% (Yes or No)

[/b]

It's not so far fetched to believe that he lived immortally after Tactics. The True Rune grants immortality. Unless he were killed, he'd still be alive.

2. Lazlo leaves Island Nations - 50% (Yes or No)

There's no reason for him NOT to leave the Island Nations. What's there for him to stay?

3. Lazlo ended up travelling through Muse in parallel with Ted wounding up in Scarlet Moon Empire - 50% (Yes or No)

I'm not suggesting parallel with Ted. I'm using Ted as an example of a True Rune bearer who traveled the world.

4. Lazlo became incompetent and found himself broke in the middle of his lifelong journey - 50% (Yes or No)

Incompetent? How does not having enough potch make him incompetent? Rikimaru isn't that old, and he managed to run out of potch on his journey for revenge. Viktor too in Suikoden I didn't have enough money to pay for the inn.

[b]5. Lazlo felt that the wooden amulet he entrusted to him by his friends is nothing but a hunk of wood - 50% (Yes or No)


After 150 years it's possible. Furthermore if he planned on coming back for it, it wouldn't be worthless now would it?

6. Lazlo selling his amulet worth 3000 potch as collateral to settle his debts - 50% (Yes or No)
i see a new post so


Wouldn't this go with Number 5?

7. Lazlo couldn't make it back to Muse because of the war - 50% (Yes or No)
-what a sissy, Pilika's family can even take a stroll around Muse and Lazlo can't? Even with the Peace Treaty? want me to quote Tom Hanks again?


Except that Pilika's family doesn't have the True Rune Of punishment. If Lazlo were to get caught up in the war, he could've had to use the True Rune, and it could've passed on from person to person once more. Taking more lives until it entered the atonement phase again. And again, everything I've said is just one scenario.

it doesn't have to be THE amulet of all time like you're trying to suggest

it could be just a wooden amulet used for plot reasons


It doesn't have to be. But that doesn't mean that it isn't. So far there is no solid proof on who the owner is. But other than Lazlo so far we don't know of anyone else who had a Wooden Amulet before the events of Suikoden II do we? So as of right now, he is the best candidate. Though it's unlikely they originally planned it that way, they have the opportunity to do so because they left it fairly ambiguous.

Anyway. I always thought the importance of the Wooden Amulet was that it was still in Riou's possession when you fought Luca Blight, and it was used as a fake powerful object to attract Luca Blights attention so that they could target him. This is pretty unlikely as well, but i think its more likely then this thread.


But Lazlo in Suikoden IV is also given a Wooden Amulet. Which seems to have little to no significance.

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Re: Hero IV's wooden amulet in SII?

Postby Mio » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:09 am

Genoh wrote:You misread my point, Mio. I was saying that IF Lazlo died, the Rune of Punishment would've left him. As we haven't yet heard the Rune of Punishment changing owners as of Suikoden III (I was saying as of Suikoden II, as that's all that matters here, since the Wooden Amulet is gotten in Suikoden II.) there's a good possibility that he's still alive.

yah,:rolleyes: i read your post

and I'm saying that you're saying that Lazlo could die, but not before he had made it to Muse to drop off that amulet

that things have a "good possibility" of going the way you wanted them

mighty convenient was my expression i believe

oh and dood, you're arguing about Yes/No questions

which means, since we don't know exactly what happened, it's a 50-50 chance of going the other way

so tell you what ima indulge you one last time to show you that one possibility has as good of a fighting chance as any possibility

1. SIII's 1st flame champ didn't live eternally. nuff said
2. like i said Tir picked a spot in a backwater village, Lazlo has better choices considering the number of deserted islands in teh Island Nations. He could cast away himself on one of those isles and spend his remaining days there
3. and you're saying Lazlo also travelled around the world hence the expression parallel. mind you Ted is looking for something, Lazlo ain't (as far as we know) i guess you'd take Lazlo for an excursionist then? dood, the guy barely speaks, we barely know his qualities, now he wants travel the globe? like I said arbitrary
4. Incompetent means a person is not functioning properly, if Lazlo decides to travel with little regards to his financial status = Incompetent
Rikimaru = Incompetent, Viktor = Incompetent (at least in their current situation at a time)
come on, if you run out of money, why not trying earning some first? if you don't = Incompetent
5. The fact is he didn't, war or no war, if it was important, he'd go out of his way to retrieve it immediately
6. first he felt the wood's sentimental value depreciated and decides to pawn it, it's in proper order
7. So you're saying that if Muse is in grave danger and people are gonna die, Lazlo would rather not be there to help cause he's too worried about the RoP? He'd rather turn a blind eye than save lives? Lazlo's such a wuss
we don't know of anyone else who had a Wooden Amulet before the events of Suikoden II do we?

oh and it's highly possible that there could only be one wooden trinket in the Suikoden world that after 150 years, of all wooden amulets that Pilika would like, it'd be the one that Lazlo owned 150 years ago
Mio wrote:sure it could be possible... 0.78125% possible

i guess you call that destiny eh?


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