Kooluk [Plot Spoilers]

[Vincent of Scarlet Moon]

I have a feeling, a feeling deep inside. A feeling I can't hide.

I think this should be in Unjustified Theories but there's the whole Suikoden IV blanket in effect so, well, here we are!

Anyway, Kooluk Empire is on the same land-mass as Toran. There's no mention of Kooluk in Suikoden I, II or III. (Obviously this is due to the fact there were no plans for Kooluk back in 1995 but this is a in-universe discussion, ja?)

Kooluk is said to be a fairly small empire, meaning if it manages to reach the northern area of the Island Nations then it's unlikely that any of the Empire was large enough to extend into what would be modern-day Toran Republic. Which seems to discount the idea of a Scarlet Moon Empire invasion/occupation.

So my theory is pretty simple and hardly require great effort on my part but... Kooluk simply fell apart from a lack of good leadership. The Central Commitee, the elders and the like, each tugging for their own piece of meat until the entire nation collapsed in on itself (erm, politically, of course) resulting in the death of Kooluk and the formation of a ton of little tribes and feudal states.

In other words, what in modern day Suikoden (I, II & III) would be considered "the Southlands".

Well? Anyone wish to point out the dozen glaring flaws in my theory, please?

[Agremsep]

There's no mention of Kooluk in Suikoden I, II or III. (Obviously this is due to the fact there were no plans for Kooluk back in 1995 but this is a in-universe discussion, ja?)

There is no mention of Kooluk but there is a mention of the Island Nations in Suikoden 2. Shu told you that he used this coin to trade with the Island Nations to the south and threw it into the river. The rest you what happens. The fact that the Island Nations were mentioned in the game as early as Suikoden 2 proves that the game creators had already in mind briefly about the surround nations of the Suikoden 2. I think the fact that Kooluk empire wasn't mentioned at all was because it fell apart as you said.

Look at how easily Graham Cray can manipulate the Governor and the rest of the army for his own interest. This proves a weak and inefficient control which the capital has. And thus, it crumbles.

[patapi]

Or we could experience Kooluk's demise firsthand in Suikoden V (or any other number).

Nevertheless, it's a tradition to introduce previously undiscovered, new countries with every new game in the series. The original hardly mentioned anything else besides Jowstone. II introduced a whole lot (since they start to plan for sequels, whereas they didn't with the original), and III used quite a handful of these as its setting.

I personally wonder what happened to Kooluk and Gaien during the timeframe of I-II-III. Maybe they will tell us, maybe they won't.

[RageRune]

Nevertheless, it's a tradition to introduce previously undiscovered, new countries with every new game in the series. The original hardly mentioned anything else besides Jowstone. II introduced a whole lot (since they start to plan for sequels, whereas they didn't with the original), and III used quite a handful of these as its setting.

True. But since Suiko3 introduced the Nameless Lands and Kamaro, would'nt that make those countries appear in Suiko5? I mean I think Konami just made Suiko4 for nostalgic purposes, I don't think they would start another story arc from Suiko4 and stop the one after Suiko3.

Though I do agree that I would like to see what as become of Gaien and Kooluk, I think many fans would'nt like Suiko5 to take place after Suiko4 and between Suiko1 IMO.Maybe if they mentioned it during or after Suiko1-2-3 then that would make more sense I guess.

[patapi]

Nameless Lands (Northern Outlands) and the Free Knights of Kamaro were first mentioned in Suikoden II, actually. If any, the pure new ones introduced by III were Republic of Tinto (the ending of II did not in any way showed any sign of this) and the Western Continent (in Scott's ending).

It's true that fans (including myself) want a post-III installment, but not reusing these new setting introduced in IV would be a waste. In fact, it would be even more peculiar if they do a post-III before returning in time (once more) to do a post-IV one. But, hey, I don't have a preference either way.

[True Wind Bearer]

resulting in the death of Kooluk and the formation of a ton of little tribes and feudal states.

In other words, what in modern day Suikoden (I, II & III) would be considered "the Southlands".

This sounds very interesting and sounds as if it may be true, the Southlands actually being the destroyed Kooluk. This would mean that characters such as Shin, Kasim Hazil, L.C.Chan and Wakaba are actually from Kooluk!

[Sasari]

Well, once you sit down and think about it, the collapse of Kooluk into the Southlands, does make perfect sense. Geographically and Chronologically.

[Vextor]

"Southlands" doesn't refer to any specific geographic region, it only means "nations in the south." If you are in Dunan, even Toran can be considered "Southland." In Grassland, they called Jowston, "The Southern City States."

[True Wind Bearer]

SARS, so, do you think that in Suikoden II when they say "Southlands" they are reffering to Toran? Or Kooluk/Island Nations etc. If it was mentioned in Suikoden I, they'd have to be reffering to Kooluk or the Island Nations...

[Vextor]

If they said "Southlands" in Suikoden 2, it can refer to Toran, but this is doubtful, because they typically just say Toran. It's like how people in the USA refer to "the South." Even if you live in Maine, you'd never call New York "the South." It's a similar concept.

[Arke]

Theres just one slight flaw with that theory. Shin and Kasim, look Arabic. Their names and clothing show it. Also Wakaba looks Asian.

The characters that we know from Kooluk are: Troy , Colton, Cray, Helmut and the Governer. These names sound Northern European (exept Troy) and they all dress like a northern european would in our 17th century or so. Also they're weapons were straight swords, these are most commonly used in Europe during the middle ages.

I dont understand how such a relatively small empire can have such VERY diverse cultures.

[confused redhead]

Was is ever officially established that Cray was from Kooluk? I figured it was one of those shady alliance things.

[Irish Pesmerga]

Was is ever officially established that Cray was from Kooluk? I figured it was one of those shady alliance things.

Cray was from the Scarlet Moon Empire i think, like Elene Silverburg, they were both tacticians in the SME if i remember correctly.

[Angelis_Taleria]

It wasn't that Kooluk was weak that Cray was able to manipulate it. It was due to his ingenius and the fact that he had many ties. I"m sure he learned how to coax people into doing what he wanted from Eleanor.

I do, however, believe that Kooluk may have fallen apart. Their army was decimated, their extra large weapon was destroyed. They were easily defeated by a small coalition of Islands, so they couldn't have been too powerful in the first place, although you must take into account that the entire nation was not in on the whole thing. Cray was only manipulating (what i assume to be) a small portion of Kooluk's power. Remember, the king didn't know what was going on and I doubt he would just have all of his soldiers on a mission he knew nothing about. *shrugs* I feel as if i'm forgetting something else, but it's been a while since I've played S4

[Fury]

If you want to argue about which area might be next for Suikoden V, I'd have to go with Harmonia. None of the games released in the US have ventured into the heart of Harmonia, only the outskirts (Caleria, LeBuque). I think it would be fitting to jump into the massive eldest country in the Suikoden world.

But we'll see. It could go about anywhere. Strange, though, that we just leave the S4 characters to their unexplained demises.