afraid to make theories...

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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bidaman
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afraid to make theories...

Postby bidaman » Sat May 17, 2008 11:41 am

i loved suikoden since the first time i played it.. it was the first ps1 game i liked after i laid my n64 controller down..
there was a game there about a boy with green clothing and a fairy..
it delivered quite well. it had a great story AND a mysterious plot line. mysterious enough for fans to try and create
long and very detailed theories about it..
i used to think that somehow, suikoden can offer that to theory lovers too. it had tons of cool and mysterious side plots and characters and i often made stories of each inside my head. but as the game evolved into something more complex and
characters' plots were built up more and more with every suikoden game, now less theories are submitted and made because of the fear that in the next game, those theories will be proven wrong, or worse, ridiculed by gamers who like to laugh at other people's mistakes.. *sigh.*

i liked the fact that the writers of suikoden are really putting gold on their work, i know more about the characters i like but
somehow, i feel that the mystery behind some of them, must not be revealed and just let the gamers themselves figure out what the story behind them is. small hints are great and useful. but thats more than enough..

the suikoden team put a lot of work in these games and they really rock.

i just wish that there was enough (and not too much) materials to make a decent theory with acceptable evidences..

i read the jowy article, and it was great...

more power to suikosource, and more power to theorist.. keep them coming..
"this too is training..."

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the hanging ninja; Suikoden II

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bidaman
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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby bidaman » Sat May 17, 2008 11:48 am

if your wondering why i wrote about this, its because i just read a few theories on other games,

specially the ones about the game mentioned above, the green cap-wearing guy with a fairy.
for an example of a great detailed theory, see this site,http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/n64-zelda/78920-message-majoras-mask.html

i am not advertising the game, the author or the site.. i just liked those kind of theories and i hope i can make one as good about suikoden. :D

i liked that green dude, but i love suikoden. hahaha..
"this too is training..."

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the hanging ninja; Suikoden II

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Mio
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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby Mio » Sat May 17, 2008 1:26 pm

ok now seriously;

1. you have no theories on any plotline in any of the Suikoden series, which brings you to an incorrect section

2. just because there's a lowdown of people in this forum doesn't automatically means that they're scared of being subjected to rejection or criticism (now i think you're just paranoid there)

3. there is enough material to put through speculation but let's face it, how long has it been since the last Suiko release? there is but a few mysteries left that has been yet to be made into a topic. Considering the time frame, YES, suikoden fulfilled its share in mysteries

4. I'm not even gonna touch that Zelda and linking to other forums <_<

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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sat May 17, 2008 2:36 pm

I think your response is kinda what he's talking about. When bidaman bought something to this page that we had never heard or seen, he was rediculed, and called a liar. When he proved himself to be true he was still rediculed about it.

I remember when i brought a few theories to this site, shortly after S3 cam out, that I was insulted indirectly and told i was flat out wrong. Not by everyone, but by some.

And the way you started off your response by nitpicking at the little things rather than just answering his concern is definitely childish and rude.

I believe that as this topic refers to the forum, and specifically the theories there in, it belongs here.

Go be oblivious somewhere else.

Tsharr
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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby Tsharr » Sat May 17, 2008 3:57 pm

JanusThePaladin wrote:I think your response is kinda what he's talking about. When bidaman bought something to this page that we had never heard or seen, he was rediculed, and called a liar. When he proved himself to be true he was still rediculed about it.



That "screen shot" didn't prove anything. I asked for secondary confirmation of the shot and nobody has been able to do so. Thus, he has not "proved himself" to be true. Until someone who didn't come on the site saying a hanging ninja who nobody else has seen is the Prince from SV double confirms that the "hanging ninja" does truly exist, I'm not going to trust anything this guy says.

I personally think the screen shot is BS. But if I get double confirmation from a more reliable source, then I'll be the first to apologize.

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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sat May 17, 2008 10:05 pm

Did you see the topic he started in the S2 forum where atleast 5 other members agree that the ninja exists? Not only that, one of the older more respected members of the site tells us the 5 snippets the ninja says? Or is this also not enough proof for you?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9833

I guess all these people are liars.

Tsharr
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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby Tsharr » Sat May 17, 2008 10:09 pm

JanusThePaladin wrote:Did you see the topic he started in the S2 forum where atleast 5 other members agree that the ninja exists? Not only that, one of the older more respected members of the site tells us the 5 snippets the ninja says? Or is this also not enough proof for you?


No, I did not see the thread in the S2 forum, as I expected the response to be listed in the other thread in which he made the mention. I have now checked it and yes, I now concede the point and dutifully apologize.

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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sat May 17, 2008 10:12 pm

Thats nice of you. But doesnt it further prove what i was saying? You can even look at it from your own perspective. Its kinda hard to put forward something new in this place, as people are so set in there ways. I'm not saying this place is bad, but i think its something we all ought to think about.

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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby bidaman » Sat May 17, 2008 11:02 pm

indeed, to make an example of a good theory-making, is the reason why put in here a link to another site, i have.

but to ridicule this wonderful site and its members by doing that, that i didnt mean.

have more potential, suikoden has.

the hanging ninja is reality, indeed.

the prince he is not, for a joke that part is..

sorry i am, for speaking like yoda..

_____________________________________________________________________________________

hey people, i just want this reality to be realized so more of our theories that we created inside our
heads while playing this game could be accepted, or just speculated by others..

some theories that are based on fun speculation ceased to exist in his site..
video gaming is meant to be fun and entertaining guys..

and finding out stories behind your favorite characters are even better..

i know that still many characters are not well developed and can be subject to theory building..

but.. wouldnt it better if some of the characters would remain a mystery to all of us?

just a thought..

there's a possibility that it was meant to be like that with other characters.. that's why in the actual games,
these character backgrounds were just hinted..

but as people wanted to know more, konami did provide more detailed backgroundson each, many that dont appear in the games..

at times, it proved to be useful and a fun read, but the mystery came to a close beacause of that..

hmm.. its just my personal opinion..

i know many will definately dislike this thought, bu still.. any comments on this is welcome..

this is a free suikoden country..
"this too is training..."

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the hanging ninja; Suikoden II

Antimatzist
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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby Antimatzist » Sun May 18, 2008 7:04 am

I don't think people are afraid of theory making, but they don't see the point in it any longer.

the "hanging ninja" issue wasn't a theory, it was a mere observation, and to me, the most fascinating thing wa sthat hardly anyone has seen him...

and as someone has already stated in the text, nearly all theories are discussed, so...

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bidaman
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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby bidaman » Sun May 18, 2008 11:36 am

thats exactly the point there.. you are right, people dont do much theorizing nowadays because, not all, but most
of the backgrounds ofsites, events, groups and characters are given directly to us.. that vagueness in some of the character's backgrounds is a really cool thing to me, because it alows players to use their imagination, along with observation and reasoning skills...
if this continues, maybe someday, Fu Su Lu will be the only one left to be mysterious..

i like the clive part of the 2nd game.. but now, we all know about the guild and its members.. its not that mysterious anymore..


"darkhawk would not be as cool if we knew what's under his mask..." __stan lee
"this too is training..."

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the hanging ninja; Suikoden II

girl_lemak
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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby girl_lemak » Sun May 18, 2008 12:06 pm

i agree.. you have point there.. the first time i saw clive was in the original suikoden, and we didnt know anything about her except for that fake grave that elza made.. in suikode, we had a short story of him.. (short meaning less than 20 hours..) nd it was great.. but after the second game, many other facts about clive and the guild were revealed...

clive still remains one of the more mysterious guys in suikoden, but not the most exciting one anymore.. :(

konami, give us some more mysteries will ya?

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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby Antimatzist » Sun May 18, 2008 3:01 pm

What do youw ant? Characters with absolutely NO background story? Well, that will leave the most imagination to the player..

I like the detectives so much, because now you can get a lot of infos about the characters. I hate it in S i, where you get NO info/whatsoever about most of the stars. In S IV they tried to avoid it by implieing Keen, who is much like a detective...

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bidaman
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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby bidaman » Sun May 18, 2008 5:46 pm

we would love that! thats why we are making theories in the first place right?
i would like to point out that the first 2 games did great abot it. konami were so good at making char backgrounds
and provided enough materials for us to make a decent theory but at the sam time, these materials were also intelligently made to be vague.. in suikoden 2, most plots were just hinted, like the time richmond flipped the coin on the bridge..
we all understood that it meant that he was the one who threw a coin down there.. but it was not written there. but we knew it. thats the kind of vagueness thats missing nowadays soon after the series became a hit..
i hope i dont offend anyone (but of course i do) by this opinion of mine..
"this too is training..."

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the hanging ninja; Suikoden II

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Re: afraid to make theories...

Postby Antimatzist » Sun May 18, 2008 7:22 pm

bidaman wrote:we would love that! thats why we are making theories in the first place right?
i would like to point out that the first 2 games did great abot it. konami were so good at making char backgrounds
and provided enough materials for us to make a decent theory but at the sam time, these materials were also intelligently made to be vague.. in suikoden 2, most plots were just hinted, like the time richmond flipped the coin on the bridge..
we all understood that it meant that he was the one who threw a coin down there.. but it was not written there. but we knew it. thats the kind of vagueness thats missing nowadays soon after the series became a hit..
i hope i dont offend anyone (but of course i do) by this opinion of mine..

Dude, I don't want to offend you, but don't ridicule yourself. This Richmond issue isn't a theory, it's a fact and one ned not think more than 2secs about that. OF COURSE was it Richmond who threw the coin there. This isn't a good example of a theory...

And later games offer sometimes a good deal of theories, as well: In S IV, the theory that Hero IV is Prince of Obel. THAT is a good example of a theory...

Furthermore, I don't see the point in making characters more vague. I hate this. Theories don't dd to the (great) suikoden background. I mean, if CLive whad not been involved in SII, noone would know about the Howling Voice Guild(and there is a great background story behind the HVG!). Or without S V, one would have never known why Morgan from S I was blind. If he weren't mentioned in S V, I would have never thought about his blindness. i would have thought it's natural- but it isn't.

damn, i'm missing the point... but it's toooo lateeee.


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