The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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Mio
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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Mio » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:29 am

Mushra wrote:ANYWAY let's made good use of this topic and change the subject...The next Strategist /o/ I would like to to be some kind Anti-hero, no nome Silverberg family some unknown guy who was trained by a hermit that spent his days craking coconuts with his head in a isolated island...Anyway, anything NEW will be welcome to me

*wears my suspicious mask*

that kinda sounds like a Lucretia PART II

or at least someone who's been trained by Lucretia or Elenor (who's from the HERMITage Island)

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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Vextor » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:26 pm

What would be interesting is to instead of having one "strategist who is so awesome beyond everyone else" like how all the Tenki stars have been, it'd be nice to have rivalry between two strategists within your own army. They didn't even have that in Suikoden 3 when there were multiple strategists, because Salome quickly supported Caesar once he appeared out of nowhere (which is also why Salome is so cool, but that's another story).

Having the hero choose strategies by one or the other strategist resulting in different outcomes would also be interesting.

Some of you would know that Liu Bei in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms had the "Hidden Dragon" Zhuge Liang and "Phoenix Chick" Pang Tong under him. Both were considered equals, but Liu Bei tended to favor Zhuge Liang, resulting in Pang Tong taking increasingly risky moves, resulting in his death at the "Falling Phoenix Pass." Something of the like would be interesting than having one ultimate strategist who can blast through everything and defeat any opponent with the flick of their fingernail.
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Mio
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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Mio » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:35 pm

hmm rivalry...

internal conflict smells good

more story, more background, more substance

plus the competition might also help Murayama improve the quality of the strategists

its always lame to have a monoopoly over something

there's noone to keep you in check whether you are still in shape or not

hmm is it possible to have a twin under a star of destiny??

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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby KFCrispy » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:11 pm

Mio wrote:plus the competition might also help Murayama improve the quality of the strategists
sorry to break the bad news, but Murayama stopped working on this series after Suikoden III.
regardless, it's definitely something to look forward to if they can develop some characters like that!

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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby RangerDeon » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:57 pm

Vextor wrote:What would be interesting is to instead of having one "strategist who is so awesome beyond everyone else" like how all the Tenki stars have been, it'd be nice to have rivalry between two strategists within your own army. They didn't even have that in Suikoden 3 when there were multiple strategists, because Salome quickly supported Caesar once he appeared out of nowhere (which is also why Salome is so cool, but that's another story).

Having the hero choose strategies by one or the other strategist resulting in different outcomes would also be interesting.

Some of you would know that Liu Bei in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms had the "Hidden Dragon" Zhuge Liang and "Phoenix Chick" Pang Tong under him. Both were considered equals, but Liu Bei tended to favor Zhuge Liang, resulting in Pang Tong taking increasingly risky moves, resulting in his death at the "Falling Phoenix Pass." Something of the like would be interesting than having one ultimate strategist who can blast through everything and defeat any opponent with the flick of their fingernail.


Best idea ever!

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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:13 am

RangerDeon wrote:
Vextor wrote:What would be interesting is to instead of having one "strategist who is so awesome beyond everyone else" like how all the Tenki stars have been, it'd be nice to have rivalry between two strategists within your own army. They didn't even have that in Suikoden 3 when there were multiple strategists, because Salome quickly supported Caesar once he appeared out of nowhere (which is also why Salome is so cool, but that's another story).

Having the hero choose strategies by one or the other strategist resulting in different outcomes would also be interesting.

Some of you would know that Liu Bei in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms had the "Hidden Dragon" Zhuge Liang and "Phoenix Chick" Pang Tong under him. Both were considered equals, but Liu Bei tended to favor Zhuge Liang, resulting in Pang Tong taking increasingly risky moves, resulting in his death at the "Falling Phoenix Pass." Something of the like would be interesting than having one ultimate strategist who can blast through everything and defeat any opponent with the flick of their fingernail.


Best idea ever!

It really is a great idea.

It would make Suikoden more non-linear, which is a great plus: If you prefer Strategsit A, he will become your main strategist will be Strategist B and vice-versa. One could be more diplomatic, the other one more aggressive and the progression in the game depends which behaviour you support more.

But I doubt Konami will include anything like that...

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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby suiko2fan2 » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:35 pm

have the choice between which main Strategists you can use would be cool, though i would doubt Konami would ever do it. Though having that kind of choosing power would cool with the supporting Strategists. Have like a pool of 4 of them, and then the player choose which 2 they like best given whatever their own unique credentials are.
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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Chaco » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:03 pm

have the choice between which main Strategists you can use would be cool, though i would doubt Konami would ever do it. Though having that kind of choosing power would cool with the supporting Strategists. Have like a pool of 4 of them, and then the player choose which 2 they like best given whatever their own unique credentials are.


Thats an awesome idea actually, and you get slightly differnt storylines and text based off the one you pick. Like if you pick one supporting tactitian you have to do a stratigy battle but if you pick another one you have to do something else, like infiltrate enemy camp.
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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:26 pm

That alone would make on replay the game*count* 12times? If every possible combination results in a different outcome in the game, that is. Imo way too much. But I really like the idea to chose between two strategists.

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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Icegryphon » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:30 pm

I wasn't a fan of Elenor either. I think she was the weakest strategist in the series by far.
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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby suiko2fan2 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:06 pm

Icegryphon wrote:I wasn't a fan of Elenor either. I think she was the weakest strategist in the series by far.


Well she certainly had the least "sober" judgment of all the strategists...lol
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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Icegryphon » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:43 pm

She basically did nothing...I mean where were her brilliant tactics?
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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Jack of All Trades » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:54 am

So, for my Succession War game, obviously the game uses two well known strategists in Mathiu and Leon, but I'm adding a couple more in there as well. I'm adding Odessa as a character and Achilles will be filling the role of Strategist Fanboy. I'm going to take Vextor's idea to heart. Althoguht I can't have them as outright rival's in this game, I'm going to create a lot of family discord. What's known about these characters is that Odessa is a naive nobel who is unaware of the corruption of the scarlet empire, Mathiu recommends Leon as the Chief Strategist, Mathiu leaves the Military after Leon recommends the destruction of Kaleka, and Odessa and Mathiu aren't on speaking terms during the begining of Suikoden 1.

However, there is nothing against building a rivalry between them throughout the game.

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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Auragaea » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:50 pm

Personally, I loved Eleanor the most because of her attitude. I absolutely loved the way she talked and the way she acted, though without a doubt, she was the weakest strategist. Her most brilliant idea was during the liberation of Obel and even that was gonna mess up had Lazlo not used his rune.
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Re: The Lack of Quality in the Supporting Strategists

Postby Belcoot4 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:39 pm

Supporting strategist like Apple or just any strategists for this post? Well for supporting strategists Apple started out to be not that impressive but by 2nd Fire Bringer War she was quite useful to Caeser. In S1 she seemed just to be a student of Mathiu's and nothing much more than that. S2 she was more of a begger and a guesser she really didn't add anything "strategic" to help them. I actually thought Klaus (I dont remember too many of the other supporting ones) was probaly the best supporting/secondary strategist because although his father, Lord Kiba, was a great general he still turned to his own son about advice in battle. To me Lucretia was the best strategist because she made best with the resources she had, wasnt afraid to get her hands dirty even if someones going to get hurt, and she constantly used her surrounding environment to her advantage. I thought Shu was okay he was really business oriented when it came to making desicons and when dealing with a foe like Luca Blight whos altimatums are either life or death, a business minded man who can make a "yes" and "no" answer quickly and unemotinaly is essential for that type of enemy. Caeser, like Shu in some ways, used clever techniques to fool the enemy and he uses a lot of reverse psychology probaly because he was going against his own brother, Albert, who knew his moves "move for move". Eleanor was descent but alot of her desicons still lead Lazlo into using his rune, so I dont think she was as effective as she should have been. She was really passionate and an alcoholic which made her really likable and I thought the alcohol symbolized her down to "earthness". Lastly Mathiu, also like Eleanor when it comes to passion and commrodary, was a good strategist with a lot of history behind him and if it wasn't for him the rest of the Silverbergs might of never come to furface still had his flaws. If anything a good strategist should be aware of everything inhouse. Sanchez betraying everybody and the fact that he was a spy for sometime, a keen strategist should know everything about the people hes dealing with. As I said above I thought Lucretia was the best of all, although she didn't come right now right away about Sialeeds betraying and why she did it, she knew that no action Sialeeds took she either couldn't or wouldn't be endangering the Prince, which thats what the strategist is there for, the leaders best interest.
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