Kiba Windamier Wrong Choice?

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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reapz
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Kiba Windamier Wrong Choice?

Postby reapz » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:04 am

Something ive never understood about Kiba and his son Klaus, Why did they ever betray there beloved Highland empire?

I mean, I understand there decision was influenced by the assination of Agares Blight, But surely that isnt enough to Betray there own Country and countryman, Sure enough his loyalty stood with Agares and not Luca, But surely being a high status Honoured General he would have dwelled upon his decision, He must remember he serves others and not himself and Agares. What about the people of Highland? how could he betray his countryman?. he went into numerous battles against his former comrades and killed many of his countryman.
And Klaus, his stragegy ideas must have led to 1000's of highlanders deathes.

I hope others can see this from my POV. If my country was at war and my king was assinated from within, i would NEVER EVER even thought about betraying my country and countryman

I really cant understand there decision to betray there motherland.

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Postby patapi » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:31 am

The assasination itself wasn't the real problem. It was the fact that the assassin is destined to be the next in line to the throne that made them come over.

For them, putting an end to Luca's lunacy is to save their beloved motherland from that madman. Case in point, the one that they actually betrayed was Luca alone, not Highland.

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Postby reapz » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:46 am

i see, But never the less, i still see there actions as betraying there country and killing there countryman, its not AT ALL justified. Just because they disliked/ werent loyal 2 there new king is no reason to betray him or there country, What aabout highlands cause?

There is no justification to what they did

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Postby 27x4=108 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:37 pm

jowy thinked this, and maked the war vs luca inside the country, kiba not, are diferent opinions

jowy was amazed by luca's strength, and kiba/klaus by riou's one..
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Postby Jowy Atreides » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:47 pm

As Shu said, they were helping their country by opposing Luca Blight.
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bench2hotty » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:07 am

And sometimes u have to kill people to save more people.And i don't thingk that Kiba was enjoying killing his own countrymen infact i think he was trying to save more highlanders by opposing luca u know.
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Postby Rai-Jin » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:49 am

kiba is kinda like the complete opposite of alenia XD
bla

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Postby Sniper_Zegai » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:25 pm

Hey there Reapz. Kiba did'nt rebel against highland, he went against what highland had become and what it was destined to be. If the state had won the citizens of the state would have settled for nothing but the complete destruction of highland and if highland won it would be a tyrannical empire. Kiba and Klaus could see that even though Agares was nothing special he was a relatively peaceful man and if he was alive there was hope that highland could survive. Without Agares there was no chance of highland losing the war and surviving. But kiba could still save lives of highland citizens. Kiba and Klaus are the best kind of heroes.
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Postby Iris » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:41 pm

If you're gonna call Kiba and Klaus traitors, then so are Riou, Nanami, and Jowy. They comitted treason before Kiba and Klaus did, and Jowy killed King Agares and then plotted to kill Luca.

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Postby EternalOnslaught » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:06 am

Kiba and Klaus probably did the right thing, as typed above. They didn't betray highland instead, they betrayed Luca. And I can see why too, who would want to be a general under Luca anyways, remember what happened to Solon Jhee? Kiba knew what the assassination of Agares meant, and probably consider that siding with Riou's army was the best way, plus he might've admired their willingness to spare them?

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Postby Sniper_Zegai » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:58 am

I totally agree. Its played out before your eyes when you recriut Kiba. Klaus puts the peices together right before your eyes. He basically explains Luca's plan to sweep the old highland under the rug and thats what Kiba and Klaus represent, the old highland that actually stood for something.
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Postby Siel Avadon » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:49 pm

Jowy was not one of country blood (adopted) not of royal blood and was even seen as a traitor! How can one who did such crimes become the rightful king in the end, take the princess. And not only, he also killed the king so a madman like Luca could become King...that would make me turn from a country I presume to find help to purify my country again.

Even if it in the end turned to become The Jowston city state territory! No one was in line to take the throne or wanted to grab it in the royal family of the Blights.
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Postby WaterMoon » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:09 pm

If Kiba and Klaus are traitors, then so are Culgan and Seed. Remember, Culgan and Seed pledged their fealty to Jowy before he was truly considered one of the generals, when he first took Greenhill, because as they said "We love Highland, it's a great country. But the path that Luca Blight is leading it in will leave nothing but ashes" or something along those lines. They saw Jowy as the best option for saving Highland. Kiba and Klause saw Riou as such. Remember, Riou doesn't want to kill people either, but he sees the kind of monster that Luca Blight is and fights to stop him. After he dies, Riou, Nanami, Kiba, Klause, Theresa, EVERYONE wants for the "peace treaty" Culgan offers to be true, though they suspect it's a trap. When Jowy turns on them then is, IMHO, the most devestating moment in the whole game for them. If anyone is a traitor in GS2, it's Jowy. He betrayed his country by killing the king, placing a monster like Luca on the throne. He then betrays Luca by killing him. And finally, he betrays Riou and Nanami by trying to trick them into the unconditional surrender.
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Postby Siel Avadon » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:08 am

WaterMoon wrote:If Kiba and Klaus are traitors, then so are Culgan and Seed. Remember, Culgan and Seed pledged their fealty to Jowy before he was truly considered one of the generals, when he first took Greenhill, because as they said "We love Highland, it's a great country. But the path that Luca Blight is leading it in will leave nothing but ashes" or something along those lines. They saw Jowy as the best option for saving Highland. Kiba and Klause saw Riou as such. Remember, Riou doesn't want to kill people either, but he sees the kind of monster that Luca Blight is and fights to stop him. After he dies, Riou, Nanami, Kiba, Klause, Theresa, EVERYONE wants for the "peace treaty" Culgan offers to be true, though they suspect it's a trap. When Jowy turns on them then is, IMHO, the most devestating moment in the whole game for them. If anyone is a traitor in GS2, it's Jowy. He betrayed his country by killing the king, placing a monster like Luca on the throne. He then betrays Luca by killing him. And finally, he betrays Riou and Nanami by trying to trick them into the unconditional surrender.


Indeed, that is real Betrayal! Is the sword rune known for Complete traitoring? ;) or perhaps known as the rune of the betrayers/ betrayal.

For it seems he did betray all and everyone, even himself? Even his own people (soldiers) By faking he sacrificed his own wife.
Jeane, The Marilyn Monroe of Suikoden.

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Postby WaterMoon » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:12 am

No, but the curse of the Bright Shield and Black Sword runes is that their bearers are destined to play out the battle between Sword and Shield as long as they bear the runes. It's why Han and Genkaku sealed away the runes, they couldn't bear to fight each other any more.
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