a reason for the relative easiness?

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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Silver Dragon Flik
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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby Silver Dragon Flik » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:49 pm

Chaco wrote:
All the planning you need is enough healing items and magic you win every fight in Suikoden.


That is very untrue. Blacksmith and weapon leveling is the key to victory, that and arranging party members and runes before battle. Tactics relies more on getting the beads and Leveling up like mad.


That's common sense, who would be stupid enough not to sharpen weapons, buy armor and attach runes?

Leveling up like mad? I can't stand people saying this. Just defeating enemies along the way is more than enough to get through dungeons and kill most bosses in 1-3 turns.

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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:13 am

I have to disagree with the 1-3 turns business, but the Suikoden games are not like Final Fantasy or similar RPGs because they dont require leveling up. As long as you dont run away from EVERY fight, you stand a pretty good chance of beating the game without ever dying. The only boss i ever really had trouble beating (that i can think of) was Neclord in S2. For some ungodly reason, he whooped up on me until i was level 48 (i kept fighting him at 47, who knew?)

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Silver Dragon Flik
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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby Silver Dragon Flik » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:37 am

JanusThePaladin wrote:I have to disagree with the 1-3 turns business, but the Suikoden games are not like Final Fantasy or similar RPGs because they dont require leveling up. As long as you dont run away from EVERY fight, you stand a pretty good chance of beating the game without ever dying. The only boss i ever really had trouble beating (that i can think of) was Neclord in S2. For some ungodly reason, he whooped up on me until i was level 48 (i kept fighting him at 47, who knew?)


Neclord is one of the few bosses that goes down so quickly because of his low HP. Using all MP on the boss before it was probably your downfall. The PS1 and 2 final fantasy games aren't very hard either, none of them required grinding.

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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:05 pm

I meant Suikoden 1. Suikoden 2 Neclord was a walk in the park. Especially because the Golem before him was weak to lightning attacks and i brought along plenty of scrolls :D

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Silver Dragon Flik
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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby Silver Dragon Flik » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:03 pm

JanusThePaladin wrote:I meant Suikoden 1. Suikoden 2 Neclord was a walk in the park. Especially because the Golem before him was weak to lightning attacks and i brought along plenty of scrolls :D


Suikoden 1 Neclord is also a walk in the part as long you give Cleo the Flowing or someone else who is fast. :)

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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:58 pm

Hmm, i never tried that. I'm always more of an offensive player, going for the quick kill rather than the long battle. However, if you are required to bring a healer, i'd have to say that the battle would have to last longer than 3 turns.

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Chaco
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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby Chaco » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:17 pm

Suikoden 1 Neclord is also a walk in the part as long you give Cleo the Flowing or someone else who is fast.


Cleo is better off with Fire, I gave HIX a flowing and Viktor lots of items, so every time Viktor used the Clone rune and went unbalanced he could heal. Neclord was easy, he just took a while to beat.
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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby Falenan_descent » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:11 pm

The game's relative easiness is all decided by the player. If you want a VERY easy game...include the "iWin" characters. Those are usually storyline-related characters and are very, very strong. Having a full back row of mages and three fighters will dominate pretty much any battle. However, if you want to up the difficulty ante...consider taking people who suck at using runes. Guaranteed you'll come out crying!

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Re: a reason for the relative easiness?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:56 am

IMHO, what made Suikoden different from other RPGs are these:

Other RPGs:

1. In many RPGs I have played, experience points given by enemies are fixed, but the experience points required to level up a character increases as the level increases. This will give rise to ridiculously repetitive grinding, since EXP from monsters grows linearly, whereas required EXP to next level grows exponentially. For example, at Level 1, enemies give you 5 EXP, and you will need only 10 EXP to level up. The next 5 levels or so, enemies give 10 EXP, but you will need 100 EXP to level up. Isn't that great? You're going to waste time grinding because you don't want the boss to mop the floor for you. Result: You lose focus on the real story of the game.

2. Damage dealt to and received from enemies is a function of a character's stats and of a necessary modifier that is usually a power of 2 such as 16, 32, 64, etc. Formulas for damage are not as straightforward as the average player would understand. The same thing with stats, too.

3. Mages and/or any characters that can cast spells are overpowered in many RPGs because they can spam offensive and supportive spells like there's no tomorrow, once they reach a high enough level. You ran out of MP? Just chug bottles of blues, if you know what I mean. Thus, physical characters are often overshadowed late game and only become the heavy duty tanks of the party. Reason? Pure swordsmen here suck endgame. Period.

Suikoden:

1. The EXP system here is unique because while the experience needed to level up is just 1000 points all throughout the game, EXP received from mobs is a function of the difference between the character's level and the enemy's level.
That way, you will become strong enough to beat the boss by the time you fight him,(READ: WITHOUT EXTRA GRINDING). It doesn't matter if you entered the final dungeon at Level 1. You will still end up strong enough to defeat the final boss with ENOUGH grinding. Other RPGs practically don't allow low-leveled characters to high-level dungeons, and all characters are within the same level range as each other.

On a side note: The only reason you will grind in Suikoden is because you're farming runes, weapon sharpening fees, and equipment for a desired party.

2. Managing 60 or so characters, six persons at a time, sure isn't a walk in the park, but is definitely more fulfilling than micromanaging only like three or four characters at one time. You get to choose the party you want, or you can bring in the "iWin" party. It depends on the player, so you don't have to get stuck with 4 overpowered characters all throughout the game, as if you are left with no choice but to use them over and over.

3. RUNES. A unique spell system wherein powerful skills are balanced by allowing the player to use it a limited number of times (the only way you can restore your spell charges is by resting in an inn. no blues required, no spamming O_O), so that you won't have to rely too much on just rune spells when your front-liners can protect your casters at the back row and can dish out good damage to mobs as well. And runes are not just limited to magic. Some of them can be used to improve the character's innate (as well as the not-so-innate) capabilities.

But the most compelling reason why I prefer the Suikodens: their stories. They're not just some fantasy stoies about young warriors battling against evil forces surrounding the whole world. Their stories are based from real-life wars, and often depict the more human side of politics and war. Just reading the Suikoden stories without playing them is a crash course to politics for me. It is true that wars compose of opposing forces. It is true that wars claim so many lives. But the fact that they believe in something, that somehow they can change their destiny and that they are willing to die for it, is outright idealistic.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.


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