Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
IamMe
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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby IamMe » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:10 am

More developed? I have to disagree with you there. Certainly, Sialeeds betrayal may have been more.. practical, perhaps? Or more interesting, but certainly not more developed, both Jowy and Sialeeds had distinct reasons for betrayal, if anything Jowy's might have been a bit more developed because he betrays you much earlier on and the game spends more time on the issue than V did with Sialeeds. But whatever

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Michael » Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:07 pm

I couldn't help but see this thread and reply. I fond more similarities between Suikoden 5 w/ Suikoden 2 ( maybe w/ a little Suikoden 1):

Riou has a unite attack with Jowy, which attacks all enemies. Just like how the Prince has a unite attack with Sialeeds, Royal Power, which attacks all enemies.

This is a silly one, but Jowy changed his attire, which he wore a white coat, and Sialeeds changed her hair, which was white, her real hair color.

Guesss Sialeeds and Jowy have something in common after all.

Riou/Hoi unite attack is similar to the Prince/Roy attack.

Alenia and Zahhak were like the Seed and Culgan of Suikoden 5. You fight them both before reaching the throne room. Just like how the throne room in L'Renouille was past Seed and Culgan ( thought you fight the Beast Rune to get there. )

The Dad-Daughter unite attack that Logg/Lunn has is similar to Tsai+Tomo unite, also Dad-Daughter attack. Not to mention, they both are "row-based" unites.

Valeria is a Falcon Rune user and has a rival wanting to fight her, Anita. Belcoot is also a Falcon Rune user and has a rival wanting to fight him, Hazuki.

If you notice, in Estrise, you can hear bits and pieces of the Gregminster music.

I think Nick and Ax are a throwback to Futch and Black. Both Futch and Nick wear purple, have brown hair, are both young, have dragon companions, etc.....

The Highland Army had Harmonia help them out for a brief moment, just like the Godwins had the Armes country help them out for a brief moment.

Bob and Ernst both have runes that can turn them into beasts in battles.

I guess that's it for now.

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Rezard » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:02 am

When you think about, all 4 games are similar (Suikoden 3 is not):

- in the beginning, you are usually introduced to a family situation;
- the family situation is disrupted/destroyed by war;
- the hero joins one of the sides of the war
- his side falls apart and he is forced to become the leader of a new army
- he recruits a super strategist, than he will win almost all battles
- a betrayal will shake his forces, usually he will fight someone close to him
- your closest friend dies if you don´t recruit all stars
- happy ending

Some roles are sometimes taken by more then one character, sometimes the betrayal is not so bad to your forces, there are minor details that change from game to game, but it follows the same script.

Think of Suikoden as a play, this play will change a little depending on the actors who perform, as they put something of them in each character. And the director will also put his particular view of the story in the script, but it is always the same play with the same story.

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby genso19 » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:32 pm

Similarities

Riou was thrown out of his homeland as well as a prince (but different reasons though)
The Bright Shield focuses on healing as well as the Dawn Rune
The Black Sword on offense like Twilight

The song "Moonlit Night Theme" was remade at S5, during the night before the last battle, and the sacred ritual of the Dragon Cavalry (this song is also played during the scene when Arshtat hugged the Prince) and that song is played in both S1 and S2,(though I like the one in S2 more, it's played during the imprisonment of Jowy and Riou in Muse and the visit of Viktor on Annabelle's room)

Mekumeku, Makumaku, Mukumuku, Mokumoku, and Mikumiku had their counterparts --- Meroon, Maroon, Muroon, Moroon and Miroon

Cathari and Stallion both have Godspeed (though there is another one)

Good thing also, the night rune is in S2 while the sun rune is in S5 (though the night rune is also in S3, but it has more focus during the S2)
Camus and Miklotov both refused to follow Gorudo as well as Rahal and Roog when Craig made his decision about not moving out

Georg Prime is there. you can have 2 large monsters in both S2 and S5

well, there's the mercenary brigade, Wilhelm and Mueller, remember that Flik and Viktor are both mercenary too, though I can't say the pairs are similar

There are 2 samurai-like swordmasters, genshu and hazuki

Nirva Island is not in S4, Skald Egan explained that it was made just recently while S4 is 150 years ago though (but still it's in the Island Nations)

well, there are alot of similarities, and I can't disagree it has resemblance
"Hey, listen up! These Godwin traitors got no respect for justice. And sure, sometimes justice is just a little word. But sometimes justice is three feet of sharp steel smashing in your face. Now, let's go get 'em!"

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby HarHar_0016 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:25 am

i think all of suikoden games goes like this...

it all start with two characters being friends but in the end they'll will be enemies

e.g.
riou and jowy
snowe and lazlo
sialeeds and frey

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby ChaosZereul » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:14 pm

Is it too obvious to go after the War systems? It hasn't been mentioned yet, but aside from the fact that one is Turn-based and the other is Real-time, I always believed 5's War System was a "modern" throwback to 2.

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Vermillion.Haze » Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:33 am

Felenan Prince wrote:hmm is it just me or does the flow of the story seem very similar to suikoden 2. I mean it start with an introduction of the situation(and shows a tragedy) then the betrayal of someone who could prevent the escalation of the conflict(Anabelle/Astartat) then recruit the strategist and start winning all battles. After that another betrayal that prolongs the conflict(Jowy/Sialeeds) And then still find a way to win the war.

Other things i feel that is similar to suikoden 2 is the 2 paths choices you make. If you choose to defend your castle(as in the prince case) or to run away(for Riou) these bad choices will have someone important to the hero die(Roy/Riddley).

Lyon also seems the nanami archetype. They even both die if you cant recruit all the SoD.

Another thing about the Roy senario that seems similar to 2 was the deflect the arrows using your weapons. There was even a point the hero was slap in the face :P [/spoiler]



A more accurate observation would be Lyon is a Gremio archtype. Come on Konami, you already did the self sacrificing bodyguard plotline!

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Sasarai10
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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu May 31, 2012 6:40 pm

Nice thread...

I have already noticed,that there many similarities with these 2. In fact S5 is just like a developed S2.

Another similarity which not mentioned yet,is that both games have 2 characters who share the same star. In S2 are Ridley and Boris,and in S5 are Eresh and Euram.

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Sasarai10 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:08 pm

The last period i've played both games a lot,so here's a list with similarities between S2 and S5 characters. You can see clearly that S5 was based on S2. They took all the good elements from S2 (storyline,character personalities,multi-endings) and they add more improved graphics,and characters voice...so they managed to make the perfect game.


Teresa/Lucretia

- You've got to rescue them in order to join you.
- They are always followed by a stupid brainless bodyguard,although poor Lucretia has to deal with 2 bodyguards.
- Both of them are carrying something made of feather
- Both are hot babes ( :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )


Flik/Georg

Ok,we all know that Georg is participating in S2,but he is totally different from the Georg in S5.In S5 he is more like a pretty lad,but not a womanizer like Viktor or Kyle,and his role in S5,is as important as Flik's role in S2. In fact he is the 2nd closest person to the hero,after Lyon,like Flik in S2 who is the 2nd closest person to the hero along with Viktor,after Nanami.
On the other hand in S2 Georg is a loner,who is very distant towards the hero. Although his fighting skills didn't fade away.


Viktor/Kyle

As we said before Viktor is on of the closest people to the hero of S2,like Kyle is one from the closest people to the hero of S5. Viktor and Flik have a unite attack in S2,like Georg and Kyle in S5. He is a womanizer like Viktor,but he is prettier than him,though.
He also leads the 2nd party during Queen's Campaign,like Viktor in Luca Blight's battle....both are 3-party battles too.


Kiba/Galleon

- Both are middle-aged (Kiba is 47,and not 37 as Richmond says)
- Both are great tanks (although Kiba participates only in major battles,but he is the best tank in these battles)
- In order to recruit them you have to fight against them,in major events.
- Both are married (although Galleon is devorced)
- Both of them have beard,but different type...it's a minor statement though,but if you have ever noticed most characters are clean-shaved.


Nanami/Miakis & Lyon


Both Miakis and Lyon have elements from Nanami.

Miakis:

- She is playful like Nanami.
- She has high speed stats
- She has a unite attack with the hero

Lyon:

- She has similar hairstyle with Nanami
- She is the closest person to the hero
- You need to have recruited all 108 stars,in order to keep her alive.
- She has a unite attack with the hero



Hauser/Dinn:

- They are "married to their job"
- They are leading Cavalry Units
- Both of them,are one of the few commanders who are playable in regural battles.
- Both are carrying big swords


Shin/Cius & Lelei

See Teresa/Lucretia above.


Humphrey/Zegai

- Talkless guys
- Similar hairstyle and color
- Strong physical fighters and poor mages
- One of the slowest characters of the game


Alex & Hilda/ Belcoot & Marina

Although Belcoot and Alex have different personalities,but their roles are similar in the game.

- Marina and Hilda are inn girls
- They are participating in the main plot,but they are optional characters.
- Both are them are recruitable,just after you got your HQ.
- You've got to save Marina,in a different way than Hilda though,but you still have to save her.


Sigfried,Feather,Abizboah & Rulodia/ Genoh & Byakuren


In S5 you can have 2 large characters,as you can in S5


Bob/Ernst

Both characters hae 2 different forms,and they can transfer to a different form via their runes.


Miklotov & Camus/Rahal & Roog

- Pretty boy duo,same colour clothing and same star of destiny too.
- Both of them will disobey their leader

Gorudo/Craig


Although Craig is a good guy,unlike Gorudo,they are similar.

- They are leaders of knights.
- The first time,you meet Craig he will refuse to make an alliance with your army,like Gorudo
- His clothes are grey,like Gorudo's
- He has a beard like Gorudo,whilst his knights are clean-shaved.


Makai & Ridley/Orok & Volga (respectively)

Orok will side with the enemy like Makai,and Volga will blame him just like Ridley,plus the fact that Lelcar has 3 different parts,like Two River.


Hoi/Roy

-Both are bandits,they have the same star,and their pretending to be the game's hero.


Stallion-Kinnison & Ayda/ Isato & Urda


Although their race are similar with Stallion,they are like Kinnison & Ayda. If you have recruited all squirels,you'll have an extra scene in the end of the game where you will see Ayda finding Kinnison,and telling him something probably,where Kinnison feels embarassed. Probably Ayda had a crush with Kinnison like Urda probably is in love with Isato. Plus both of them are using hawks as weapon,and they have a unite attack together...and 4 of them are recruited in a forest.


Kasumi,Sasuke,Mondo/Raven,Sagiri,Shigure

The 3 ninjas of the game....2 of them are a pair (Sasuke & Mondo/Sagiri & Shigure) and the other one is solo. Sagiri has a long raged weapon,like Sasuke and the other 2 has a short ranged one. the pair of ninjas in each game have a master (Sasuke & Mondo have Hanzo,and Sagiri & Sigure have Oboro),and the 3 of them are acquainted in each game.


Futch/Nick

- Both are teens
- They are dragon knights
- They were purple clothes
- They own a baby dragon


Jude/Shoon


You may wonder what a relationship has a gladiator with a sculptor but if you look carefully,you will notice that Jude is quite similar with Shoon.


- Both of them are late recruits (Shoon is actually the latest if you recruit Eresh)
- You will meet them earlier in the game,but you won't be able to recruit them.
- They won't escape from the city whilst it is conquered by the enemy. Jude is stuck in Greenhill and Shoon is stuck in Stormfirst.
- And finally they will be recruitable once you liberated their city



Mukumuku,etc/Maroon,etc

5 characters with similar names,and looks. although in S5,all characters are SoD,whilst in S2 only Mukumuku is a SoD.





And the bad guys:


Jowy/Sialeeds:

-The traitor of this game,who happens to be a good person actualy.
-As it stated by other guys here,both of them have a unite attack with a hero,which causes damage to all enemies.
-Plus they bear a true rune,after some point of the game.


Luca/Childerich:

The psycho of the game


Culgan & Seed/Zahhak & Alenia.


-A duo of skilled generals of the enemy side,who are seen together most of the time.
- Although in S2 both were men,in S5 there is a man and woman duo,but their hair color is similar. (Zahhak has gray hair like Culgan,whilst Alenia has red like Seed)
- It is already stated above,that you fight them before entering the throne room,and after the fight,they will die.

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Punkaiser
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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Punkaiser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:56 pm

Some pairs seem right but I would argue about

Viktor/Kyle:
Viktor isnt a womanizer, it happens only once in S2 that annabelle was his old acquaintance that he felt attracted to. So for a comparison to Kyle, Sheena would fit more as a swordman fellow with 3 rune slots.

Lyon doesn't remind me of Nami but Miakis sure does:
Both Nami and Miakis are tomboys, with cheerful personalities and somber at times, they share almost same posture in combat. And they are the big sis to the main hero.

Hauser/Dinn
hauser has no concept of romance in S2 , so that makes him more similar to Muller than Dinn, since Dinn is already attracted to the daughter of Sable's mayor (forgot his name) whom he will get married with later.

Jude/Shoon
- Both of them are late recruits (Shoon is actually the latest if you recruit Eresh)
- You will meet them earlier in the game,but you won't be able to recruit them.
- They won't escape from the city whilst it is conquered by the enemy. Jude is stuck in Greenhill and Shoon is stuck in Stormfirst.
- And finally they will be recruitable once you liberated their city

All these points fit Gantetsu as well :). But really, Shoon always remind me of Wakaba from their combat posture to the unique runes and their outfit.

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Sasarai10 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:32 pm

Punkaiser wrote:Some pairs seem right but I would argue about

Viktor/Kyle:
Viktor isnt a womanizer, it happens only once in S2 that annabelle was his old acquaintance that he felt attracted to. So for a comparison to Kyle, Sheena would fit more as a swordman fellow with 3 rune slotters.

Lyon doesn't remind me of Nami but Miakis sure does:
Both Nami and Miakis are tomboys, with cheerful personalities and somber at times, they share almost same posture in combat. And they are the big sis to the main hero.

Hauser/Dinn
hauser has no concept of romance in S2 , so that makes him more similar to Muller than Dinn, since Dinn is already attracted to the daughter of Sable's mayor (forgot his name) whom he will get married with later.


All these points fit Gantetsu as well :). But really, Shoon always remind me of Wakaba from their combat posture to the unique runes and their outfit.




Hmmm as i remember Viktor in S2 was quite a womanizer.

For example when Riou comes along with the traveling circus to meet Viktor in South Window,he teases him about the hot girls (Ellie and Rina) he found. Or whilst he is in bath with Riou and Flik,he teases him about women. Sheena is a womanizer too,but he is an idiot unlike Kyle.


Lyon is similar to Nanami,because in order to keep her alive you need to recruit all stars. That's why i consider her role in the game is similar to Nanami's.

How can you compare Hauser with Muller? :shock:

Muller is a stupid tyrrant,who opresses poor Richard. On the other hand, Hauser is a good person,he is not a tyrrant. But i consider Dinn's role in the game,is similar to Hauser's role. Dinn is a skilled cavarly general,like Hauser,plus he fights in regural battles.

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Punkaiser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:07 pm

Teasing your friend by talking about women (their weak spot) doesn't make you a womaniser, you only become one when you start chasing multiple skirts. I would call Kyle an idiot when it comes to women, any other reason for Ferid to forbid him to go to Lunas?

Nami doesnt hold any special rune as twilight, that's a big difference. Besides being revived by 108 recruits, they don't really have anything in common in term of personalities or combat.

Seriously, do you think Hauser would be the nanny type who can pamper an annoying kid like richard when he keeps following and shouting "did you see that? did you see this"..etc.. For men who's too dedicated to their job like those guys, family or children is a big burden. Other way to say it, I see that hauser would act like Muller if someone like Richard was attached to him in S2 and Muller will behave like hauser if he was left alone.

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Sasarai10 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:33 pm

Punkaiser wrote:Teasing your friend by talking about women (their weak spot) doesn't make you a womaniser, you only become one when you start chasing multiple skirts. I would call Kyle an idiot when it comes to women, any other reason for Ferid to forbid him to go to Lunas?

Nami doesnt hold any special rune as twilight, that's a big difference. Besides being revived by 108 recruits, they don't really have anything in common in term of personalities or combat.

Seriously, do you think Hauser would be the nanny type who can pamper an annoying kid like richard when he keeps following and shouting "did you see that? did you see this"..etc.. For men who's too dedicated to their job like those guys, family or children is a big burden. Other way to say it, I see that hauser would act like Muller if someone like Richard was attached to him in S2 and Muller will behave like hauser if he was left alone.



1) Look,the one you are discribing in "you only become one when you start chasing multiple skirts",is Gavaya. He is the guy who chases every woman,he sees just to marry him. Kyle was forbidden to Lunas,simply because he could peek during the bath. But,as it seems,women are his weak spot,even for his enemies like Alenia. During the Queen's Campaign War,he said that he wouldn't like to fight against Alenia. (Personally i agree with him,i wouldn't like to fight a hot woman like her,even if we are enemies :D )


2) As i said in another topic,i think Richard has been brainwashed. It's not normal to admire a tyrant who is opressing you,unless you are a masochist. But since Richard is a skilled swordsman,if he hasn't been brainwashed,he could easily cut off Muller's head. Btw,Muller calls his superior,Wilhelm,a fool the night before the last battle,if you have noticed it.
Hauser is not that kind,because if you remember in Tinto, Jess saw disrespect to Riou,when he appeared,because he thought he was the one who killed Annabell. Although if instead of Hauser you had Muller in his place,i would bet that he would cut off his head,because he saw disrespect to the Leader of (whatever) army,even if he was mistaken.
Besides being very devoted to their job,i think Hauser and Dinn have feelings,instead of Muller who is cold-hearted.
Btw,the name of the mayor of Sable is Solis Raulbel

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Sasarai10
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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Sasarai10 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:41 pm

Off-topic,but i wonder why Hauser is the only black guy in Suikoden Series...that's very strange

I don't recall any other black people in Suikoden...

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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Punkaiser » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:03 pm

1. What's your point? that Kyle isn't a skirt chaser and he's still a wise man that won't do anything recklessly even when it comes to women? He DOES foolishly flirt around whether he can and he messed up in Lelcar thanks to that. I'm not saying gavaya or anyone else is not, but I'm saying Kyle IS. It's a bit off to discuss about gavaya though, that guy has no common sense, more like a wild animal during mating season.

2. You don't have any proof to claim richard was brainwashed, right? Since it was never mentionned anywhere so don't take it as a fact. Why can you let yourself consider muller to be a tyrant but uneasy to approve richard as an annoying brat who bothers the man?

It's logical for hauser to do nothing when Jess accused Riou because his real ally at that moment was still Jess, not Riou, there's no reason for him to behead his comrade for the sake of someone else's leader? Now put muller and wilhelm in that picture, do you think muller would cut willhelm if he ever curse the Prince? No chance.


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