Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
Felenan Prince
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Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Felenan Prince » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:58 pm

hmm is it just me or does the flow of the story seem very similar to suikoden 2. I mean it start with an introduction of the situation(and shows a tragedy) then the betrayal of someone who could prevent the escalation of the conflict(Anabelle/Astartat) then recruit the strategist and start winning all battles. After that another betrayal that prolongs the conflict(Jowy/Sialeeds) And then still find a way to win the war.

Other things i feel that is similar to suikoden 2 is the 2 paths choices you make. If you choose to defend your castle(as in the prince case) or to run away(for Riou) these bad choices will have someone important to the hero die(Roy/Riddley).

Lyon also seems the nanami archetype. They even both die if you cant recruit all the SoD.

Another thing about the Roy senario that seems similar to 2 was the deflect the arrows using your weapons. There was even a point the hero was slap in the face :P [/spoiler]

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Rivera
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Postby Rivera » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:22 am

There are some parallels and similarities to Suikoden II in ways, mainly because I think they were trying to recapture the feel Suikoden II gave out.

It's also noted other parallels included Sialeeds/Jowy - the character that is on the enemy's side, but somehow seems to be fighting for the same thing you are - just on their own terms.

The Dawn and Twilight Runes that the game seems to focus on are not true runes, similar in a way to how the Sword and Shield runes of Suikoden II are not true runes but halves of one True Rune.

And of course, Suikoden II and V are the only ones in which your main tactician is not a Silverberg although in Suikoden II he was a student of one whereas Lucretia has no relation whatsover.
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patapi
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Postby patapi » Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:59 am

Sialeeds was fighting for your benefits. Jowy, on the other hand, fought to unite the lands of Highland and Jowston under a single banner: his absolute rule. Those are two very distinct goals, I tell you.

Next, the Falenan war was a civil war. The war in II was you fighting against another nation.

Lyon is clearly a throwback at Gremio. If you want Nanami, Lymsleia better fits the obnoxious sister stereotype.

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Postby Felenan Prince » Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:29 am

Well I think Sialeeds was fighting not so much for the prince(after all she ruined the prince's plan of taking lym and ending the war)so much as she was trying to fight for to make falena stronger and becouse she knew that even if they won the war the threat of civil war would again show its head becouse of the barows and godwins. Jowy was also the same,true his main goal was absolute rule but it was becouse he wanted to prevent another conflict like that arising. He knew unless Dunan or Highland was destroyed they would continue the fight.

True I know that 5 was a civil war and 2 was a war between nations. I only said the general flow of the plot was the same not the plot itself.

Hehe sorry I guess lyon might have been based on Gremio unfortunately I haven't played suikoden 1 so i really don't know how similar they are.

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Postby Jowy Atreides » Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:03 pm

There's another primary difference between Sialeeds and Jowy: Jowy's plan involved the death of Riou, and Sialeeds' plan didn't involve the death of the Hero. They aren't as similar as you'd like to think.

Sialeeds actions during the Queen's Campaign were for the greater good, not to disrupt the Prince's plans. Let's not make this another "What was Sialeeds thinking?" discussion, since it's already aware to us. Even Kyle and Georg (and various other peoples in the HQ) explain what she was really doing.
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby reyjusuf » Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:06 pm

Jowy let Riou go when they were running away from greenhill. I think it was Leon's idea to kill Riou in the conference.

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Postby Ced The Lad » Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:10 pm

Make no mistake, he would have given the order to kill Riou, Teresa and the crew had Pilika not been there.
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Postby Felenan Prince » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:45 pm

Maybe. But Jowy had another oportunity to kill the hero. During the battle against the matilda knights. And yet he didn't. Maybe Sialeeds never outrightly tried to kill Hero5 but remember she did try to destroy the dam of Sol-Felena. Which would have kill Hero5 and his army. Sialeeds could not have 100% know that Lucretia was prepared for that even thus she knowingly put her nephew life in danger

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Postby Jowy Atreides » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:50 pm

Seems like he wanted Gorudo to do the job for him; his plan merely backfired, and he also had his blade drawn as soon as he entered the hallway.

If Sialeeds had not destroyed the dam, there was an even greater chance that Gizel Godwin would have done something far worse. In this case, destroying the dam was the better of the two choices, albeit they both would have endangered the Prince. This actually shows that she did something that had nothing to do with her motives to only give the Prince a better chance of surviving. It only supports our hypothesis.

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Postby Felenan Prince » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:25 pm

If he had wanted Gorudo to kil Riou why would he help him kill him?

Don't forget Sialeeds did fight you using the twilight rune thus she was also trying to kill the prince

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Postby Jowy Atreides » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:28 pm

But did she though? Yes, gameplay speaking, she may have killed the prince. But no, she didn't. When the Prince got in her way, she dealt with him accordingly, without killing him. She could've, but she didn't.

Jowy's also a teenager, and teenager's can't control themselves sometimes. Also, Gorudo was trying to kill all of them at once, if you recall, and take things over himself. In that situation, it's obvious what one must do. Get yourself killed after fighting so hard? Not likely.

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Postby Holly Spirit » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:41 am

As I was playing Suikoden 5, I really cannot help but associate some portions of the game (or even as a whole) to Suikoden 2.

If you can visit Toran (setting of Suikoden 1) in Suikoden 2, you can visit Nirva Island (part of the Island Nations, which is the setting of Suikoden 4).

You organize three groups in the middle of the game to ultimately fight Luca Blight in Suikoden 2. Similarly, you also organize three groups in Suikoden 5 in hopes of taking back Lyn. I believe that's the best moment in Suikoden 5. I should say the turning point of the game. That goes for Suikoden 2 also.

Also, I saw a thread here discussing Childerich as an hommage to Luca Blight. They are both bloodlust, ruthless, evil and unforgiving.

Oh, if Suikoden 2 has Miklotov and Camus, Suikoden 5 has the Horse Dragon Dudes Rahal and Roog.

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Postby romfus » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:56 am

Holly Spirit wrote:Oh, if Suikoden 2 has Miklotov and Camus, Suikoden 5 has the Horse Dragon Dudes Rahal and Roog.


Suikoden 1 had Alen and Greansal, Suikoden 3 had Borus and Percival, and Suikoden 4 had Hervey and Sigurd. A pretty boy pair is a staple in every Suikoden.

And some other similarites:
Two-river and Lelcar
You go liberate both cities immediatley after getting the HQ.
They both have 3 districts.
They have a leader of a district who makes a pact with the enemy, saying it's for the benefit of the city(Orok and Makai).
One of the district leaders gets mad at the person working with the enemy (Ridley and Volga)
The Armorer (Mohsen(?) and Hans) and Jeane are recruitable in these cities.

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Kyril
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Postby Kyril » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:50 am

Felenan Prince wrote:Hehe sorry I guess lyon might have been based on Gremio unfortunately I haven't played suikoden 1 so i really don't know how similar they are.


here are the similarities of lyon and gremio:
-they're both Tenei stars.
-they're protecting the hero (lyon->prince gremio->tir).
-they both die but will revived if you completed the 108 stars of destiny.

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Rune
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Re: Suikoden 2 and suikoden 5 similarity SPOILER

Postby Rune » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:24 am

I think a lot of the plot similarities to I and II are only surface-deep, and often thrown in only as a homage/attempt to relate to I and I (isn't that what fans were asking for after III and IV!?). A lot of other similarities (such as you can go back to a nation from past games in II and V) are simply coincidental, and appear in other games as well (III had splitting the party up into 3 groups as well for example).

And whether or not you think V is too similar to I/II or not, it still did everything a whole lot better. Even if Arshtat is "just another Annabelle," her character is ten times better, and I felt a much bigger loss when she died. Is Sialeeds just another Jowy? I don't think so, but even if she is, her betrayal is a lot more interesting and more developed.


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