Gods

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:09 pm

That whole order=bright shield thing has already been discussed.

http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3069

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:11 pm

Oppenheimer wrote:That whole order=bright shield thing has already been discussed.

http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3069

I know, I don't want to get that discussion again.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:14 pm

The problem is that you are assuming that dark represent chaos and light assumes order. The Night Rune is the order that lords over all the fallen. Now, in what way does that represent chaos? If you fall into simple stereotypes such as dark representing evil then I think you will be sucked in. The series seems to make us think in different ways and not see things in the normal light.

Not that I truly disagree, with you, but it has been plainly stated that the Shield is Chaos and the Sword is Order. In no way does it make much sense to have the Bright Shield Rune be alligned to the Sword and the Black Sword Rune to be alligned to the Shield. You would have to give a very convincing argument to sway things that way.

And yes, this has been talked about, but remember that the Bright Shield does not represent Order. Riou was on the side of the rebellion. Leading a band of people to rebel against an established nation with rebels, while Jowy was using the Black Sword Rune to hopefully align all those nations under one orderly rule. Seems that Bright Shield has always aligned with the person that has gone against order.

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:59 am

demon eye wrote:The problem is that you are assuming that dark represent chaos and light assumes order. The Night Rune is the order that lords over all the fallen. Now, in what way does that represent chaos? If you fall into simple stereotypes such as dark representing evil then I think you will be sucked in. The series seems to make us think in different ways and not see things in the normal light.

Not that I truly disagree, with you, but it has been plainly stated that the Shield is Chaos and the Sword is Order. In no way does it make much sense to have the Bright Shield Rune be alligned to the Sword and the Black Sword Rune to be alligned to the Shield. You would have to give a very convincing argument to sway things that way.

And yes, this has been talked about, but remember that the Bright Shield does not represent Order. Riou was on the side of the rebellion. Leading a band of people to rebel against an established nation with rebels, while Jowy was using the Black Sword Rune to hopefully align all those nations under one orderly rule. Seems that Bright Shield has always aligned with the person that has gone against order.

Right, however Jowy might as wel have been given the Bright Shield Rune and Riou the Black sword rune. That would mean that True Rune's alignement changes to that of the bearer.

Anyway I hate the whole Morality stereotype and were getting a bit off-topic.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:12 pm

"Could have" really doesn't solve the problem. Jowy wasn't given the Bright Shield Rune for a reason. Every Black Sword Rune bearer we know of has had similar characteristics similar to the Bright Shield Rune.

Wicht · Post by **Wicht** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:06 am

I have one explination, you are correct no deity's but this might clear your mind.

BIG BANG THEORY. Or, in a sense, a sun can grow hot and explode, not exactly BIG BANG theroy. BUT it does or can go along with Gaia's Theory, that immense energy cannot be created or destoryed. It was already here, the energy just became something else, this is possible. Specially that whatever dies or is 'destoryed' per se, returns to its original origin. So either one can work.

I almost forgot, that Shield is negitive energy and the Sword positive, obviously this also works that more then one energy can derive from the 'source.' So there will always be a dark and light side, this also can effect either theory. (For example a sun 'expands' and a black hole 'implodes'.)

anokosa · Post by **anokosa** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:47 pm

well no offence but it's obvious that the bright shield is chaos. i mean look at how difficult it was for riou to pull together an army of power. It was only his attribute of bieng so kind and helpful etc, that got him his army. meanwhile jowy has a kick-ass army from the moment he joins highland. so it's obvious he has order, an riou has chaos.

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:49 pm

anokosa wrote:well no offence but it's obvious that the bright shield is chaos. i mean look at how difficult it was for riou to pull together an army of power. It was only his attribute of bieng so kind and helpful etc, that got him his army. meanwhile jowy has a kick-ass army from the moment he joins highland. so it's obvious he has order, an riou has chaos.

Thats saying Riou is Chaos not BSR. Like I said it depends on how you look at it.

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:15 pm

In this whole discussion, I don't think anyone has pointed this out:

Riou is using chaos to bring about order--He's defending from Highland's attacks.

Jowy is using order to bring about chaos--He's invading Dunan and bringing war.

And yes, I would say that each represents chaos and order as well.

Riou lived with Nanami--which is enough chaos to begin with.

But, his homelife was a lively one.

Jowy lived in the nice, big Atreides home. More than likely, the home was quiet, sedate--orderly.

These are the personalities that the Runes attached to.

anokosa · Post by **anokosa** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:47 pm

true but the true runes also look for a host that they think they can use for their own means. And trust me, i know about being a host seeing as i am a minion of gaea (clan of magic, who uses defencive and heling magic more than attack.)

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:41 pm

anokosa wrote:true but the true runes also look for a host that they think they can use for their own means. And trust me, i know about being a host seeing as i am a minion of gaea (clan of magic, who uses defencive and heling magic more than attack.)

im sorry for getting off topic, but what do you mean when you say your a minion of gaea? what game are you refering to?

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:37 am

anokosa wrote:true but the true runes also look for a host that they think they can use for their own means. And trust me, i know about being a host seeing as i am a minion of gaea (clan of magic, who uses defencive and heling magic more than attack.)

You realize you just agreed with me, right?

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:17 am

anokosa wrote:true but the true runes also look for a host that they think they can use for their own means. And trust me, i know about being a host seeing as i am a minion of gaea (clan of magic, who uses defencive and heling magic more than attack.)

He's an occultist ^^. Not meant offensivly. I'm very interested in 'Occultisme'.

anokosa · Post by **anokosa** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:07 am

what's an occultist?

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:32 am

A warning here that we're getting off topic. If no one has anything more to post on topic I'm going to have to lock this thread, thanks.

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