Suikoden IV - What Should Have Been

[Id]

Art
-Brighter colors
-Make Hero4's eyes smaller, he was creepy!
-The body-types were way too slim
-The costumes should have been more varried or vibrant (maybe that has to do with the colors)

The costumes and colors are blander than the later Suikodens for a purpose. The timeline. Complex clothing designs and patterns were not invented then.

How do you know that? Mabye they're more bland because its an archipelago setting. Complex clothing designs and colours have been around for 1000's of years on earth.

[Oppenheimer]

How do you know that? Mabye they're more bland because its an archipelago setting. Complex clothing designs and colours have been around for 1000's of years on earth.

I agree. Native Americans wore complex clothing designs, for example feathers and face paint.

Besides it's not that they didn't exist since some people, like Reinbach, do wear bright colours.

I think the drab colours were done more to represent the oppressive feel of the Rune of Punishment. I don't think that was a good idea, but I think that's what they were going for.

[RageRune]

I always thought the bland clothing represented the time setting of Suiko4. Since it is 150 years before Suiko1, then the style in the Island Nations would'nt be as colorful or complex as Toran's or Dunan's since clothing would've been more basic back then.

[Fury]

Snowe - Snowe was a little panzy fairy traitor for no reason, other than he wanted to "save" his people or whatever, but it wasn't even developed, he just betrayed the hero, and he becomes less than a hidden character.. He hates the hero for no reason, he was separated from the hero like jowy, but given no interesting plotlines, he was just a little puss. There was no background on their friendship at all, and then they weren't friends anymore. There were no dramatic scenes of revenge or forgivness, just utterly crappy ingame scenes of him on his little raft.

He was a traitor for a reason. You just have to take the time to really look at his character and see what sets him off. You can play close attention to what Glen says and what Mr. Vingerhut says as well.

[spoiler]

It's obvious that Lord Vingerhut has a lot of clout on Razril and he's a major source of support for the Knights financially and politically. He's rich and Snowe is a spoiled rich kid. He's a little better at the beginning, seeing that Hero was raised along with him, but events later on spawn resentment.

Glen knew that Snowe wasn't that great of a soldier, but he also knew that if he didn't put Snowe in a position of power, Lord Vingerhut would get angry and possibly withdraw his support.

Glen recognized that Hero was a much better soldier and leader, and more confident to boot.

This got under Snowe's skin, since he had been raised to believe he was the best. He felt like he deserved it. He was probably thinking "Why is this kid who washed up on the shore getting better treatment than I am?"

Then later on, on the trip to Iluya, when the ship is attacked by pirates, Snowe really shows his cowardice in the face of his men. If you chose the right option, Hero jumps in and takes command, another source of jealousy from Snowe. He was jealous of his courage and leadership.

Snowe rebelled because of envy and jealousy. He then tried to compete with Hero, be more like Hero, but in his own way. He didn't chose a path of righteousness, but a path of recklessness, which eventually led to him floating in the middle of the sea on that plank.
[/spoiler]

There's my take.

[Oppenheimer]

Any more discussion specifically on Snowe, and not Suikoden IV in general, please put under the following thread:

http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2223

[koriand'r]

Snowe - Snowe was a little panzy fairy traitor for no reason, other than he wanted to "save" his people or whatever, but it wasn't even developed, he just betrayed the hero, and he becomes less than a hidden character.. He hates the hero for no reason, he was separated from the hero like jowy, but given no interesting plotlines, he was just a little puss. There was no background on their friendship at all, and then they weren't friends anymore. There were no dramatic scenes of revenge or forgivness, just utterly crappy ingame scenes of him on his little raft.

He was a traitor for a reason. You just have to take the time to really look at his character and see what sets him off. You can play close attention to what Glen says and what Mr. Vingerhut says as well.

[spoiler]

It's obvious that Lord Vingerhut has a lot of clout on Razril and he's a major source of support for the Knights financially and politically. He's rich and Snowe is a spoiled rich kid. He's a little better at the beginning, seeing that Hero was raised along with him, but events later on spawn resentment.

Glen knew that Snowe wasn't that great of a soldier, but he also knew that if he didn't put Snowe in a position of power, Lord Vingerhut would get angry and possibly withdraw his support.

Since that's the case then why would Glen punch Snowe not once but twice at least? I liked Glen's character (though suddenly telling graduates that out in the seas is a man called Troy that is so powerful that your chances for survival is slim at most was a bit nonseical) yet punching a rich kid whose dad has great influnce in Razril was just foolhardy. I can't help but feel that the punch was used as a shock value and wasn't thought out well enough.

I don't really have a grasp at SIV save the 2 second enemy enounter at sea, I like Tal's character, however I said it before SIV was out and say it now, a cat race was and has proven to be an unimaginative and annoying idea. The fact they resorted to that shows the developers lazy habbit in making anything fresh in the game.

On good points though was that Cray's voice was very well done which hows konami can get talented voice actors mostly. Yet in the end it was the same old thing, young boy (with disturbingly large eyes) leads an army to defeat a bunch of bad guys and why should the story focus on a bunch of Islands and kooluk? Kooluk offers nothing to the series as its influnce and might is still nothing compared to harmonia as Suikoden III has shown. Why break away from harmonia all of a sudden to a farback timeline? It dosen't take advantage of Ted's past fully (hunted by windy etc) since Ted was in a cameo by Windy would be welcoming considering she comes with Yuber and Neclord. Its a shame they couldn't add more to Ted's subplot.

[Chris_Lightfellow]

I agree with koriand'r. They could've had a scene in which Windy and Yuber board the boad looking for Ted or something. I also kinda felt that the naval battle were way too easy. I mean, come on, 3 ships is an armada?! Yeah right! I'd say more like 10,15, or 20 ships. I beat every battle on the first try. It needed a bigger challenge.

[Hugo]

Why would they want to do that. The Soul Eater was presumed lost for 300 years. How would they know to look on the ship. You did get to see Leknaat, though and it was funny seeing the ghost ship captain's form being sucked into the Soul Eater. Plus you learned more about the City of Eternity and you had some more unanswered questions, which is never a bad thing and is one of the reasons for Suikoden's popularity.

[Jowy Atreides]

It was explained in Suikoden I that Windy and Ted hadn't met since the 300 year gap between the destruction of the Village of the Hidden Rune and when they met again in Gregminister. If Windy and co. had shown up hunting Ted during Suikoden IV it would've contradicted what was said in Suikoden I.

[Chris_Lightfellow]

Oops. Forgot about that. Sorry. But did anyone else find the naval battles way too easy?

[LillyXChris]

The naval battles were TOO TOO EASY. It's like you're gonna know what to do next, what runes to put and what kind of fighters you're gonna need. Even the curve-ball you get at the final naval battle couldn't make up for it!

Thus we move on to group battles. Question (sorry for the caps): WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD CHANGE IT FROM 6 PERSON TO 4 PERSON?? Thank you. Also, the rune animation, which was so cool from S1 to S3, is now lost. Even the final spell of the better runes (i.e. Rage) couldn't make up for that.

[koriand'r]

It was explained in Suikoden I that Windy and Ted hadn't met since the 300 year gap between the destruction of the Village of the Hidden Rune and when they met again in Gregminister. If Windy and co. had shown up hunting Ted during Suikoden IV it would've contradicted what was said in Suikoden I.

They can be in the game and yet not have encountered Ted instead attack several locations where they belived Ted was last been. Just because they haven't met in the last 300yrs dosen't mean to say they had near run ins into each other.


If they were up in the middle of grasslands during the 300yr search then I think they could had made a slight visit to the Island nations during that time. They speant most of the time on a killing spree and Windy is looking for vengence on harmonia and with her knowlege on runes I think a weapon that Cray produced that was an island destroyer would not had gone unoticecd. Having the three destroyers to pop in to hijack the weapon from Cray woul had been an intresting plot twist. Suikoden IV had the setting to bring them in with the only problem being in how to make Neclord vunulurable when only the star dragon sword could.

I also agree that the naval battles were too easy and small, however most suikoden war battles have been too easy, the only differnce here is that the numbers of the forces against each other in IV were a LOT smaller.

[Xavier_ the_wanderer]

I agree with koriandi. i mean even if they didn't know ted had the rune or where he was they could follow rumors. the rune of punishment and forgiveness is alot like the soul eater. and i think rumors about a power that can destroy huge fleets by itself leaving nothing behind would spread like wild fire. so they might have shown up hearing about the rune of punishment and thinking it was their quarry.

and yes suiko4 was way to easy and straightforward in my opinion. you always knew exactly where to go. it was marked on you map for cripes sake. in suiko 2 and 1 i got lost and wandered around for an hour or so atleast once. thats kinda what makes finding places alittle more fun, and slightly more realistic.

also they reallly should have brought yuber back in. he's been in every game he's kinda a part of what makes suikoden, suikoden. the unbeatable demon yuber who always seems to side with the opressive side. you never know if you'll win against him or not. it's a nice challange

i didn't mind the races so much. i personaly like cats. they were also the very oppisite of dogs. i hated their clothes and slouch though. that didn't make sense to me. hy make the cats slouch if your not making the dogs? both should slouch techincaly.

one last point. to many of the stars didn't do any fighting. i was actualy kinda interested in seeing the mermaids fight. but you don't even get them, if i rememeber correctly, as support characters. this bothered me.. there were alot of people i wanted in my team but couldn't have because they weren't fighters. in s2 tuta fights and he's anything but a fighter. did this bother anyone else?

[Yuber_luv]

I agree with most of you. The characters needed to advance themselves! Plot twists were in terrific supply in Suikoden IV's predecessors, but this one seemed to be lacking. The characters (most of them) were bland and, as stated by many before me, the naval battles were too easy and boring. The costumes all could have been much better.

One thing I noticed that I didn't think anyone posted was the fact that there were almost no references to previous games, characters or otherwise. The only things tying this game to previous ones are Ted, Viki, Jeane, and the mention of Harmonia. Other than those things, it's almost as if Suikoden IV is a whole different game.

[Jowy Atreides]

Well, there can't be much connection to the other games since they take place over 150 years after Suikoden IV. Ted (and the Soul Eater), Viki, Jeane, Leknaat, Harmonia and the Scarlet Moon Empire are the only things that connect to the other games, in a plot-related sense. There's also some people (Gary and Ema, Rita and Rachel) that seem to be ancestors of future SoDs (Maximillian/Fred and Sancho/Rico, the tricksters and Camille).

Yeah, I know Windy and co. could've shown up without directly interacting with Ted but it would've been odd to see her hunting for Ted when he's so close and not being able to find him, for me.