Harmonia theory, and Yuber & Pesemerga theory...

Id · Post by Id » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:33 pm

Too bad Konami doesn't stick to the main story.

Also, from what I have seen, there is no evidence to support Yuber and Pesmerga playing a huge role in the series. Pesmerga says three words in 1 and 2. He does nothing else. Miklitov and Camus play a bigger role than him in one game then he and Yuber did in 2 games, and they Camus and Miklitov also appear in a side game. Not to say that Pesmerga and Yuber aren't cool characters, but your argument doesn't convinve me that they are a huge part of the series. Just becuase their final battle has to take place in the final suikoden doesn't make them on of the keys to the series, yet. ( I'll believe it when i see it.) They are simply popular characters.
Mabye if the Suikoden team got their bloody act together and made a decent game for a change that was true to the original vision, Pesmerga and Yuber would play a bigger role. I don't see it happening though.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:18 pm

Well if konami drops pesmerga and yuber than they are killing the suikoden franchise

theres to many questions about them and if they were left unanswered there would be no point in creating such mysterious and complex characters as pesmerga and yuber

Id · Post by Id » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:29 pm

How would dropping them kill the franchise?
They may be mysterious, but How are they complex characters?

There are too many questions left unanswered about pretty much everything in the suikoden series because of bad translations/bad writing in 3 and 4, there is pretty much no plot. The series isn't hinging on Pesmerga and Yuber.

Luc's Soul · Post by **Luc's Soul** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:43 pm

Whatever you opinion may be, Suikoden 3 did not have bad writing. I put that writing/story on one of the better RPG's ever.

Id · Post by Id » Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:08 pm

Whatever your opinion may be, Suikoden 3 did have bad writing. I put that writing/story on one of the worst RPG's ever.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:35 am

I agree that the series does not hinge on Pesmerga and Yuber. They are just interesting characters that add to the intrigue of the series. They are certainly more than meets the eye, but nothing too grand as of yet. Although I agree with your stance on Pesmerga and Yuber, I fail to see how you came to the opinion, and I respect your opinion, that Suikoden 3 had bad writing and a sketchy plot. It may have not been on par with 2, but it's plot was quite a bit more complex than Suikoden 1.

There was a lot of action behind the scenes leading the Grasslands into war based on the motives of one individual who plan to destroy his own True Rune. That's the plot right there. Also, you have the search for the Flame Champion, the uncovering of a world ruled by Order and the mystery behind the cloning of Luc and Sasarai.

Am I missing something, or is that a lot of information and plot sequences? Most stories in novels and movies don't have that many plot points. Sure, I'll agree that Suikoden 4 failed to have a very detailed plot, but it almost parallels with Suikoden 1 in that respect. I just don't see where the harshness in you opinion of 3 and 4 comes from although I understand and respect your stance on the matter.

Angelis_Taleria · Post by **Angelis_Taleria** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:37 pm

The problem, DE, is that most people don't pay enough attention or they forget and then make statements based on what they can pull off the top of their heads, or in some instances out of their asses. For as long as Suikoden lives most fans will continue going on saying that each Suikoden is horrible, or sub-par, because it did not live up to Suikoden II.

I loved Suikoden III. I thought it was fantastic in the way that your main characters each had personalities. The battle system was ok, although I did not like the pairing method. It limited you, somewhat, but plot wise it was excellent. It took a character who no one really thought much of and introduced you to the real him. From Suikoden 1 and 2, the only things we knew about Luc was that he was mischevious and smarmy and it made some players percieve him as evil until we got to the latter portions of the game in which most people began to symapthize and take pity on him. The only thing that could've made it better, IMHO, was unearthing GF. *cough* Especially with all the grave robbing you were doing anyway. =P

Id · Post by Id » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:01 pm

demon eye wrote:I agree that the series does not hinge on Pesmerga and Yuber. They are just interesting characters that add to the intrigue of the series. They are certainly more than meets the eye, but nothing too grand as of yet. Although I agree with your stance on Pesmerga and Yuber, I fail to see how you came to the opinion, and I respect your opinion, that Suikoden 3 had bad writing and a sketchy plot. It may have not been on par with 2, but it's plot was quite a bit more complex than Suikoden 1.

There was a lot of action behind the scenes leading the Grasslands into war based on the motives of one individual who plan to destroy his own True Rune. That's the plot right there. Also, you have the search for the Flame Champion, the uncovering of a world ruled by Order and the mystery behind the cloning of Luc and Sasarai.

Am I missing something, or is that a lot of information and plot sequences? Most stories in novels and movies don't have that many plot points. Sure, I'll agree that Suikoden 4 failed to have a very detailed plot, but it almost parallels with Suikoden 1 in that respect. I just don't see where the harshness in you opinion of 3 and 4 comes from although I understand and respect your stance on the matter.

I was just reversing what that guy said before me, because he told me i was being opinionated and then passed his own opinonated statement as fact, I was just showing him his post could go the opposite way. I don't really know what I think of Suikoden 3's plot, I just remember it being the same game three times over with a few different characters and scripting here and there.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:19 pm

Ok, well I see now. Sorry about the detailed statement then.

Fury · Post by **Fury** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:21 am

Id wrote:Too bad Konami doesn't stick to the main story.

Also, from what I have seen, there is no evidence to support Yuber and Pesmerga playing a huge role in the series. Pesmerga says three words in 1 and 2. He does nothing else. Miklitov and Camus play a bigger role than him in one game then he and Yuber did in 2 games, and they Camus and Miklitov also appear in a side game. Not to say that Pesmerga and Yuber aren't cool characters, but your argument doesn't convinve me that they are a huge part of the series. Just becuase their final battle has to take place in the final suikoden doesn't make them on of the keys to the series, yet. ( I'll believe it when i see it.) They are simply popular characters.
Mabye if the Suikoden team got their bloody act together and made a decent game for a change that was true to the original vision, Pesmerga and Yuber would play a bigger role. I don't see it happening though.

Doesn't stick to the main story? WHAT main story? There's been a different main story in each installment! There isn't a true main story in the whole thing, plus, in any world, there are many things going on other than major conflicts. Personal vendettas and individual goals and aspirations play a part, too.

Sheena wants to fight so he can get the chicks.
Pesmerga fights to find Yuber.
Anita is a rival of Valeria.
Some people just like fighting.

As far as Pesmerga not saying much, he's not a vocal individual. He lets his actions do the talking. Humphrey doesn't even say much in S1 OR S2. His favorite line is "............................". Does that mean he's unimportant? History tells us otherwise.

It doesn't take much to look at what's been presented to us through the games and through creator commentary that there is much more to Yuber and Pesmerga than what meets the eye. There's a bigger conflict and a much more grand of a story involved with those two.

Don't feel like I'm getting on to you or anything, I'm just trying to explain my thought processes and my opinion on the matter.

MatildaWhiteKnightLeader · Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:49 am

Well there's also a main theme of all the games that war will always exist between humans and it takes someone special (main character) to unite people and restore peace. Runes, True and regular, play a role in this.

Koal · Post by **Koal** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:27 am

Just a question, but what if Yuber is the eightfold rune incarnate???
I just think that it is a valid point....

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:58 am

It is a valid point and it is an interesting idea for sure, but I personally doubt so because Yuber seems to be "too human/creature" (as in having his own mind, etc) and we have never seen an incarnation of True Rune to take form like that. And also the information we have stated that Yuber bears the Eightfold Rune and not the Eightfold Rune itself. So it's accepted that Yuber is a bearer of a True Rune rather than an incarnation of one.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:58 pm

Another True Rune has a mind of its own (slight Suikoden V spoiler if mentioned), so the notion of Yuber being the Eightfold Rune can't be dismissed because "he has a mind of his own", which is debatable in the first place, since he usually talks about Chaos, or some way of eventually getting to Chaos.

So little is known about Yuber (and by association the Eightfold Rune) that we can't just say "Yuber bears the Eightfold Rune, end of story." He is also able to find ruptures in the space/time continuum (Suikoden III, Chris going to Alma Kinan the 1st time), which is something that has yet to be explained, among other things.

Also, shouldn't there be an is between and & not in the 3rd sentence? You said the same thing twice.