My Theory On The Creation And The True Runes

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:00 pm

Ok guys hear me out

The story of creation says that darkness shed a tear{because it was lonely} and then the brothers sword and shield were born

while it dosent say if 1 was good or if 1 was evil it does say the rune of begining{which is a true rune} splits into bright sheild rune and dark sword rune

so obviously the bright sheild comes from the brother sheild and the dark sword comes from the brother sword

now right away we should know that sword is evil and shield is good because dark represents evil and bright is a different way of describing light and light is a repensentation of good

so if we can establish that sword and sheild represent evil and good then we can say they were gods shield was a good god and sword was an evil god

It says there battle created the stars and the jewels that adorned them fell and became the true runes

now i believe the true runes represent sword and shield in every way, they are manifestations of emotions and power that were in sword and shield.

Runes like the rune of punishment represent the emotions of sword and shield

while other runes like the elemental ones represent the power aspect of sword and shield

while every true rune has a will of its own the elemental runes are not evil or good they just have POWER

I also think every true rune while part of sword and shield are also separate from them and have developed there own will and desires and oppinions on all aspects of life

the blue moon rune represent bloodlust and compassion 2 very opposite emotions which are evil and good. so i would say that the blue moon rune has the ability to be evil or good and that the compassion powers come from shield and bloodlust comes from sword

even if im wrong about this you cant deny that blood lust and compassion are complete opposites just like bright and dark, just like sword and shield

same with the rune of punishment atonement=paying for ur sins and forgiveness=it dosent matter what you did you shouldnt die or have anything bad happen to you. as you can see these things are also complete opposittes

another example is soul eater= life and death=complete opposites
just like sword and shield

anyway i think you get my point on that matter

The reason I think the runes search for bearers is because they want to become part of a life again, they dont want to be alone, sometimes they dissapear and hide inside the earth. maybe thats because its depresed its master died and its grieving{makes you think dosent it?} or maybe its cause its decided it dosent need a master and just wants to be left alone{kinda like when you break up with a g/f or b/f and say to yourself the hell with guys/girls I dont need them}

For some reason the runes that arent elemental tend to start off in the evil emotions than the opposite/good emotions that it also has. Perhaps this is because they reflect the state of what they represent. for example the punishment rune has the ability to reflect either the good and best forgiving natures of the human race or reflect the desire of revenge and anger in the human race

perhaps this is because most of mankind reflects the atonement stage of the rune so thats why its in that stage and when it finds its true master/bearer/1 who is worthy it waits to see how its powers will be used and depending on how the bearer/master uses the rune and how he lives his life and whats in his heart the rune then reflects its master other than mankind

and everyone has the ability to be good or evil

there are some runes that do not have good/oppositte in them such as the beast rune which only desires blood blood and more blood, I believe that this perticular rune is the bloodlust of sword. As far as the other runes that dont have a good/opposite nature to them, I havent thought of what they represent yet but i strongly believe all runes represents either emotions or powers of sword and shield

Anyway this is my theory on the true runes and the begining in the suikoden series, ive thought long and hard about it

alot of things arent completley explained and i know there are alot of things i didnt talk about but i strongly believe that the things i touched on are true

and im very excited to see what the replies say!

Gau · Post by **Gau** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:10 pm

Spoilers herein.

Suikoden has always been very reticent as to placing the labels of 'good' and 'evil' on most things, including some of your enemies. They always establish vast gray areas in between where most of the people fall into when you find out their true intentions.

Like at first you may think Luc is evil because his actions will kill so many people, but when you learn he is trying to destroy the rune to free himself but also free the people of Suikoden from their power, he falls into the gray area. Another example is Jowy, who seems bad when he kills Anabelle, but later we find out he is just trying to end war and create peace for the likes of Pilika.

Also, all of the true runes are sentient, and do what they do to serve their own purposes. They also don't seem to have a moral compass as to what is good or evil, or most likely they just don't care. So i don't think you can automatically classify any True Rune as good or evil, or the Sword as being evil and the Shield as being good.

Eroschilles · Post by **Eroschilles** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:34 pm

My thought was that the runes were neither good or evil, but balanced in powers. And the elemental runes were just like the forces of natural, having the capability to destroy and to create.

For example fire can destroy and create warmth which humans need to live. Water can drown and give sustainance to life. And so on.

And the runes' motives are just mysterious at the moment. They do certain things that they want, but the reason for them doing those things is unclear (Like they have some grand plan in the works). The games drop hints every now and then, but not enough to form a solid theory. But that's just my humble opinion...

Kranach · Post by **Kranach** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:27 am

True Runes have two sides example Soul Eater Rune of Life and Death and so we can say that all True Runes has a good and bad side. Punishment Rune of Atonement and Forgiveness.

Sol Knight · Post by **Sol Knight** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:43 pm

I think that runes can be evil, like the Soul Eater. It may be the rune of Life and Death, but honestly, you don't see any revival spells, or scenes where someone comes back from the dead. And the Black Sword Rune, sure Jowy was a good guy, but he killed alot of people in vain.

Id · Post by Id » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:36 pm

You do know that the creation myth is just a myth. Its not like a literal sword with jewels on it fought a literal shield with jewels on it and thats what created the earth. Its metaphorical, its what the people made up to make sense of how the world was created.

True Wind Bearer · Post by **True Wind Bearer** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:06 am

Hmm, I agree with son_michael.
His theory is smart and makes alot of sense.
Especially the part about some runes represnting emotion and some represnting power.
Great.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:17 am

More like the True Runes symbolizing or being the embodiment of those 'Truths' essential to reality. Emotions, nature, supernatural. The True Runes are the emobodiment of beliefs that persist in mortal creatures. They symbolize all the complexities of the mortal psyche. Just like the gods of Ancient Greece and Rome, they symbolize all that occurs in the world.

They are the emobiment of phenomena..either natural or supernatural. I have a new theory on the True Runes as a whole. They are the 27 Eternal Truths evident in the Suiko World. But, I once suggested that the True Runes embody the duel nature of the world, struggling for Order and Chaos. They are the equalizers, constantly pressing against one another keeping the world in harmony.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:45 pm

you cant say the 27 runes are mans way to symbolise different beliefs because they werent created by man

when you say"they are the embodiment of phenomena either natural or supernatural" you contradict yourself

Im sorry but your theory does not make sense

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:18 pm

when you say"they are the embodiment of phenomena either natural or supernatural" you contradict yourself

Im sorry but your theory does not make sense

you cant say the 27 runes are mans way to symbolise different beliefs because they werent created by man

Why cant I?? Everything about True Runes represent that which is natural pertaining to the Suikoden view of a normal world. The Rune of Life and Death embodies the aspects of life that all things experience and death which signifies a conclusion. All things that the True Runes embody occur naturally in some aspect in the Suikoden World.

True Runes represent natural phenomenon. A few questions for you: Wasn't it your theory that implies True Runes embody emotions and power, which are both very human qualities? Also, why would Sword and Shield need their emotions and powers represented?

The True Runes embody the basic foundation of this reality. Human emotion and desires come from something. I'm suggesting that True Runes gave birth to those emotions, desires, and natural phenomena such as wind, water and fire.

True Runes manipulate their bearers to an respective end that constitutes their individual wills. This isn't so much a desire, they just carry own with their individual duties which ensure that harmony is maintained.

So, how does this contradict with what I said? I can better explain this to you if you explain to me what you're exactly talking about. Next time you should clearly explain your position. What exactly doesn't make sense to you? Don't just say, well, your theory doesn't make sense.

I can easily dissect each and every True Rune for you and make a very detailed theory, I've actually done so. True Runes are my favorite topic. I can also sink my teeth into yours, as well, if you would like that.

Point out what you don't like and I will gladly, in detail, defend each and every point with examples. We can have a nice little discussion, but I can't assess what you find wrong if you don't give a reason for why you find fault in it. Just saying I can't say something, then pointing out a contradiction which is not a contradiction of what I said at all, doesn't enlighten me on your opinion cause you don't give any substance to your critique.

Siel Avadon · Post by **Siel Avadon** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:57 pm

Sol Knight wrote:I think that runes can be evil, like the Soul Eater. It may be the rune of Life and Death, but honestly, you don't see any revival spells, or scenes where someone comes back from the dead. And the Black Sword Rune, sure Jowy was a good guy, but he killed alot of people in vain.

Bright Shield is the good side of this rune, "creator rune" or what the hell it was called when both half was together, like Windys and Leknaats "back" and "front" becoming "true gate rune"

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:00 pm

first of all not many people know about the true runes

those who have true runes,search for true runes or the 108 stars of destiny are the only people who know about them

so how can the entire race of humans and other species treat the runes like gods? if they dont know they exist

this is why I was disputing your comparison to the races of suikoden treating the true runes like roman gods, do you understand where im coming from?

My theory at the top of this thread is that the true runes represent the powers and emotions of sword and shield as if sword and shiled were 2 gods fighting, however when I mentioned the rune of punishment I did say that the rune was in its atonement stage probably because it reflected the state of the human race and then when it became 1 with its master/bearer it would reflect whats in his/her heart instead. So yes The true runes do embody emotion and power but they are extensions of sword and shield and I think that the emotions the true runes have was originally within sword and shiled then they came out in the form of entities with knowledge and power. kinda like from the death of sword and shield came new demi gods

why would sword and shiled need there emotions and powers represented? I dont know pehaps this was a way for sword and shiled to live on after they killed eachother

also just want to also point out that I think the world of suikoden{since it was created by sword and shiled} is connected to the true runes as well

Some things you and I agree on but I dont agree that the runes gave birth to emotions, I think sword and shield did and the runes are just extensions of sword and shield

sorry I thought I explained myself preety good in previous post

I would enjoy seeing you disect each and every true rune because then I can try and put my theory to the test

lol sink your teeth into mine? lets not be mean here, I welcome your thoughts on my theory, obviously you and I both agree the runes are connected with different emotons and powers so I dont out theories are that much different

but as far as comparing the runes to roman gods in the sense that people worship them, I hope you understand my reason for rejecting that statement

lets have a nice little discussion then

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:16 pm

first of all not many people know about the true runes

those who have true runes,search for true runes or the 108 stars of destiny are the only people who know about them

so how can the entire race of humans and other species treat the runes like gods? if they dont know they exist

Never said they were treated like gods. I said they are like gods of the Suikoden World.

this is why I was disputing your comparison to the races of suikoden treating the true runes like roman gods, do you understand where im coming from?

I do, but once again, I never said they worshipped the True Runes, I said the True Runes are similar to roman gods embodying the phenomenon of the natural world.

why would sword and shiled need there emotions and powers represented? I dont know pehaps this was a way for sword and shiled to live on after they killed eachother

This is where you lose me. According to the myth, Shield and Sword fought over pride. That was the only emotion they showed. Besides, that is a myth which cannot really be proven. I need more substance. Besides, the Sword and Shield did not kill each other. It is unknown what happened to those entities even if the myth was true.

Some things you and I agree on but I dont agree that the runes gave birth to emotions, I think sword and shield did and the runes are just extensions of sword and shield

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I will post later about my opinions on that subject.

lol sink your teeth into mine? lets not be mean here, I welcome your thoughts on my theory, obviously you and I both agree the runes are connected with different emotons and powers so I dont out theories are that much different

I'm definitely not being mean. I just feel that I should give your theory the same attention you gave mine. Just showing respect.

I would enjoy seeing you disect each and every true rune because then I can try and put my theory to the test

Look forward to the post tonight, then.

but as far as comparing the runes to roman gods in the sense that people worship them, I hope you understand my reason for rejecting that statement

Once again, no where in my three posts did I mention them being worshipped.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:05 pm

ok obviously I got the wrong message from ur post and I misunderstood it about the roman gods thing

well it says sword couldnt cut shield and shield couldnt block sword and shield became the earth and sword became the sky, so obviously if sword and shield were in fact gods then they did die when they lost to eachother because they no longer existed as gods and there power and emotions left them{at least if my theory is correct}, therefore they became souless thngs.{shield a planet and sword a sky} your right when you say the myth was never proven but I dont need substance, this is all fantasy and I think if you cant prove it then believe it anyway{have faith} well like I said I think sword and shield did infact kill eachother but there emotions and powers lived on in the 27 true runes

I look foward to your oppinions on that subject as well because you probably do know alot more about suikoden than me and I enjoy discussing such topics

thank you for the respect, sorry if I took your comment the wrong way

I will deffinetley look foward to ur post tonight

should be fun

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:44 pm

well it says sword couldnt cut shield and shield couldnt block sword and shield became the earth and sword became the sky, so obviously if sword and shield were in fact gods then they did die when they lost to eachother because they no longer existed as gods and there power and emotions left them{at least if my theory is correct}, therefore they became souless thngs.{shield a planet and sword a sky} your right when you say the myth was never proven but I dont need substance, this is all fantasy and I think if you cant prove it then believe it anyway{have faith} well like I said I think sword and shield did infact kill eachother but there emotions and powers lived on in the 27 true runes

If the Sword and Shield are the earth and sky, then they still exist. See what I mean? The earth and the sky are the Sword and Shield, so they still live according to the myth.

And the common misconception is that the True Runes were created by Sword and Shield. The myth actually states that the Sword and Shield had 27 True Runes attached to them as jewels from the very beginning. The 27 True Runes already existed, but they fall to the earth after the Sword and Shield clash and the sparks from their battle become the stars. If anything could be seen as their creator it would be the Tear which Darkness shed out of loneliness.

And no one knows more about Suikoden than anyone else. We're all fans of the series and we learn something new from each other every day. Your ideas are introducing new thoughts to me, as well. No one knows more than anyone else. And there's no need to apologize at all.

I will post my in-depth analysis of the True Runes (except for the Rune of Punishment..we aren't allowed to do so yet) later on tonight. I'm still compiling the data that I have amassed over the years...the post will be quite lengthy. It should be posted a little later.