Another Stupid Yuber/Pesmerga Theory

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
Pyro
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Post by Pyro »

maybe pesmerga is chasing yuber the same way clive chases elza,cause maybe yuber stole the eightfold rune from him or his master?
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Red Killey
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Post by Red Killey »

It's possible for sure, but I prefer to have a different reason rather than the cliche "someone stealing someting from another". I just expect a more complicated and important reason than that.
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Post by Soul Eater »

I wouldn't mind if we dont find out in the next game or two, maybe just an appearence for Pesmerga to balance out Yuber in S3.

I think their situation is interesting, and may be important... but they are pretty shallow characters without much to them so I don't really like them. I remember when I was about 14, when I found pesmerga and saw yuber, I thought "wow, these guys in cool black armour..." but as I got older I started to hate things that are designed to make teenage boys think they're cool. I'm only interested in their significance to suikoden, but I think their characters are pretty much non-existant and boring.

So if people are sick of yubsmerga threads then people close this.
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Fliktor
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Post by Fliktor »

So if people are sick of yubsmerga threads then people close this.
yubsmerga - lol that made me laugh!

I find Yuber/Pesmerga a little bit interesting just due to the mystery. All the Yuber and Pesmerga threads do is constantly go round and round in circles, arguing semantics about the posibilities of their purposes. That kind of steals the enjoyment from them really...I agree with Soul Eater, that mostly they're shallow characters.
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Avizoah
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Post by Avizoah »

I really wish they would go into more depth with the Yuber/Pesmerga conflict. They are some of my favorite characters in the Suikoden series. But I have to disagree with the topic creator, Yuber is plain evil, and an opportunist. I wish they hadn't totally screwed over his design in Suikoden III though....

You're absolutely right about them being shallow characters though. It's pretty much good VS. evil and not much else. But they look damn cool.
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Eao
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Post by Eao »

Chef Boyardee wrote:I think Yuber is more of an opportunist who really doesn't care too much for his employers than anything else. He wants bloodshed and chaos, as he states in Suikoden III and nothing else. Play Suikoden III, you'll find out Yuber isn't as cool and eloquent as the other Suikoden games depicted him as.
oh I have the proff, in Caleria Yubby sits down in a chair in a quite uncooth way...sure its caual and male. but god, you don't have to sit like that.
Pyro
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Post by Pyro »

they are pretty shallow...but that will probably change once pesmerga catches up to yuber in future suikodens
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Post by LGM »

Maybe the point of Pes/Yuber is they don't catch each other. Both are pretty similar to each other, but have never really come face to face (maybe once in a big battle). I always thought Yuber sounded like Ouroboros (Yuroberus), which is the symbol of infinity. Two snakes eating each other. Just like their armours.

Suikoden is not one story, but many interjecting each other. Yuber/Pes is merely another strand of story to keep your interest, just like Vampires, Elves, Ninjas, Dragons, and disgraced generals. each story is different from the next, but they all fit in to a big picture. And these stories aren't just for one game, they pass on into the next. What makes Suikoden special is the threads that run through the games, and characters who re-appear are a big part of this. Of course, with some characters (like Clive) once their story is told, you can't really use them again. Pesmerga and Yuber are mystery incarnate (like Vicki). By telling their story, you make it impossible to use them anymore.
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Fliktor
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Post by Fliktor »

I agree to a point. But some people can still be used. Clive can still be used, Tir could still be used. Luc (if he was alive, which he's not) could still have appeared in Suikoden. So even if Yuber and Pesmerga were to fight and have their story told, then they can still be a part of another story.

As you said, Suikoden is many interjecting stories, so there's always new ones to be involved in.
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Post by baron kalan »

I like the Ourobouros theory. As for me, I always thought that Pesmerga chasing Yuber somehow referred to Norse mythology. You know, the wolf Fenrir chasing the sun, again and again? And one day, he catches up with the sun and devours it. That day is the Ragnarok, the dawn of the gods, and metaphorically the end of the world.

It's interesting to consider that the chaos caused by Fenrir devouring the sun results in the dying of the world and its rebirth : a much more ordered and quiet world appears in the stead of the old one.
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Post by Blue Sasarai »

hmm i just wish pesmerga and yuber were in suik4, maybe tell more of their background or something. eh maybe in suik5 and on right ^^

but i do believe they will leave em a mystery, as they should. there better that way. the unknown is so much more interresting isnt it? XD
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Post by Wynter_Z »

Pesmerga embodies order. Yuber embodies chaos. Good and evil don't enter the picture. This has, I think, been stated by Konami as has the fact that the Suikoden world ends when these two meet in battle and duel. (I wish I could find that interview with Murayama, dang it)

This is why Pesmerga didn't show up in III. In all previous games, a kingdom was absorbed by the end of the fighting, thus increasing "order", thus furthering Pesmerga's purpose. War is chaos, and creates more of it, which is why Yuber was there; to further his purpose.

Yuber admits he isn't human. Therefor it is highly likely that Pesmerga isn't either. There has been considerable guessing that both may be physical manifistations of runes.
Last edited by Wynter_Z on Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Fliktor
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Post by Fliktor »

Where's your proof the Pesmerga embodies Order? I see no reason at all other than he wears similar armour to the armour Yuber wore in Suikoden I & II and is searching for Yuber.
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Post by Wynter_Z »

Fliktor wrote:Where's your proof the Pesmerga embodies Order? I see no reason at all other than he wears similar armour to the armour Yuber wore in Suikoden I & II and is searching for Yuber.
No one has proof which is why we are disscussing things. These are theories.

It makes sense, since Yuber embodies chaos, that his rival would embody order. Of course, we don't know Yuber thinks of Pesmerga is his rival since he dosen't seem interested in him. We know Yuber is importaint to the Suikoden timeline, but Pes is still anyone's guess.

It's also possible that we are looking at a Breath of Fire IV scenario. Yuber and Pesmerga may be one entity split in half and they need to become "one" again.
Last edited by Wynter_Z on Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wynter_Z »

Here's another possible theory, ripped from SARS:

"Ok for those of us that played and beat suik 3 we are aware of the vision that haunts luc's mind of the battle between Dharma ( Order) and Chaos that is ever on going battle of all worlds.

Yuber has a High Affinity for Chaos , in everything Yuber does all he wants is Chaos in it truest form . in fact he tells Luc straight out in luc scenario in suik 3 That he will help Luc destroy the true Wind Rune as Long as it Causes extreme Chaos

Yuber is a immortal non-human being

Yuber also has the Eightfold rune

Eightfold is comonly considered more of a Order based affinity

also in the teachings of Buddha , The Eightfold Path is , Do Not Commit Any Unwholesome Act and Perform Only Wholesome, Virtuous Actions. ( which is the complete opposite of Yuber)


Anyway here is my excuse for a theory come in.

Keeping in Mind the Battle for the universe is being taken place by the powers of Order and Chaos and Yuber does have both ( his rune = order himself = chaos) It is feasible to me therefore to assume that Yuber is somhow an Avatar of either or both of these two great powers , if not related to them somehow.

And if he is indeed an embodiment of one ( I'd lean more towards Chaos) could Pesmerga be his Opposite ( Order)

And if that is true then is that why it will be the FINAL suikoden where they have their duel , and would lucs vision therefore be a reality after their duel ? ( but that's going a little to far down the road and is a whole complete other discussion)"

In the gensosuikoden card game:

"The basic parameter of pesmerga's card is:
attack strength: 4 military strength: 500

And yuber's:
attack strength: 3 military strength: 500

So, pes is a little stronger than yuber, but, if yuber is appearing in enemy side, pes will become:
attack strength: 8 military strength: 1500"

And one that scares the CRAP out of me:

" Someone on this board stated that Yuber and Pesmerga worked for Hikusaak. However I have something to add to that. Is it possible that they were created by Hikusaak to hold True Runes just like Luc and Sasarai were, only they were created many years earlier. This would explain why Yuber and Pesmerga looks the same. Although they wouldn't be clones of Hikusaak himself since they don't look nothing like Luc and Sasarai. In S3, Luc mentions that him and Yuber are the same. Were they the same because they were created for the sole purpose of holding true runes? In a way Yuber and Luc has similiar personalities. Yuber hates true runes. And Luc wants to destroy all the true runes. Maybe Yuber rebelled against Hikusaak and Pesermga was despatched to catch him. Hikusaak, later decided to create more clones of himself, so they can run Harmonia while he went away on a trip to track down Yuber or something."
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