Hikusaak's clones

Usesnumbers · Post by **Usesnumbers** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:43 pm

I am aware that luc, and Sassy, are clones of Hikusaak. However is it possible that all the bishops are perhaps clones of him, being he communicates directly through them solely. So I am just wondering if perhaps all the bishops are clones, so they perhaps think more like he... though this would entail some problems.

I am sure someone will disprove/ clear this up and I thank you.. This was just spurred from the Harmonia topic.

Post by **Vextor** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:58 pm

It can't be proven or disproven because there's simply too little info.

However, during the scene where Sasarai makes Luc into a Bishop, you see a bunch of other people wearing big hats and blue robes against the walls of the room. That same outfit was what Sasarai is seen depected with during the opening sequence of Suikoden 3 as well as in his card for the Suikoden Card Stories. So perhaps those people are all Bishops. Their face all seem to look similar to Sasarai, too.

Usesnumbers · Post by **Usesnumbers** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:50 pm

SARSadmin wrote:It can't be proven or disproven because there's simply too little info.

However, during the scene where Sasarai makes Luc into a Bishop, you see a bunch of other people wearing big hats and blue robes against the walls of the room. That same outfit was what Sasarai is seen depected with during the opening sequence of Suikoden 3 as well as in his card for the Suikoden Card Stories. So perhaps those people are all Bishops. Their face all seem to look similar to Sasarai, too.

I just came up with the idea from reading another topic, but it seems to make a little sense, but I suppose just speculation. thanks tho. = ]

Zieg · Post by **Zieg** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:54 am

My theory is that there are actually 26 clones of Hikusaak. Each one made for bearing a True Rune ( or wielding a sword with a True Rune Embed on to it). I think that Hikusaak's plan is to find all of the True Runes and give them to the clones. Then his army would be unstoppable, and he could take over the whole Suikoden world without working hard and planning his next moves.

LadyChris · Post by **LadyChris** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:53 pm

Were there really that many bishops? I wonder why only two appeared then in 3 if there were 5 true runes in it?

Post by **Raww Le Klueze** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:49 am

It can't be proven or disproven because there's simply too little info

I thought the cloning process required a True Rune?

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:50 am

You'd assume that, because the only known clones have True Runes, but Konami's never said whether or not a True Rune is required for the cloning process.

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:34 pm

First of all, I don't think that Hikusaak ever wanted to collect all 27 True Runes. Or if he did, Konami had a weird way of showing it. The following supporting ideas gave me the impression that Hikusaak didn't really care about it:
1. Beast Rune was given to Highland. Though it was said that the Beast Rune itself that wanted to move instead of Harmonia giving it up happily, it still showed that Harmonia/Hikusaak didn't mind losing a True Rune. Had Hikusaak's goal been to collect True Runes, he wouldn't give it up so easily.
2. Luc's case. Hikusaak knew that Luc bore the True Wind Rune, but he never tried to hunt him down to reclaim the True Wind Rune at all. This showed that, again, Hikusaak didn't mind losing a True Rune.
3. The other True Rune bearers. Not even one of them was ever hunted in any form by Harmonia. This point showed that Harmonia didn't initiate anything at all to try to gather True Runes.

Having said that, I don't really know whether the bishops are all clones of his or not because we must know for sure what the clones are used for first. If the clones are created purposely only to bear True Runes, then I believe that the bishops aren't clones. If the clones are created just for the sake of having clones, then the bishops might be clones. Personally speaking though, I don't think that the bishops are clones. It just doesn't really make sense to have clones as empty vessels while no True Runes to bear. It would be more logical to create a clone once you need it to contain the True Rune.

Post by **Vextor** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:14 pm

1. Beast Rune was given to Highland. Though it was said that the Beast Rune itself that wanted to move instead of Harmonia giving it up happily, it still showed that Harmonia/Hikusaak didn't mind losing a True Rune. Had Hikusaak's goal been to collect True Runes, he wouldn't give it up so easily.

It is doubtful that Hikusaak had any actual means to anchor the rune back then. At most, we don't know of any means by which he could have anchored the Beast Rune.

2. Luc's case. Hikusaak knew that Luc bore the True Wind Rune, but he never tried to hunt him down to reclaim the True Wind Rune at all. This showed that, again, Hikusaak didn't mind losing a True Rune.

He may have tried to look for Luc. However, Leknaat perpetually hides herself within a magic ward. She specializes in keeping herself hidden (reason why Windy wasn't able to find her), and thus Hikusaak would have had little luck finding her and Luc.

3. The other True Rune bearers. Not even one of them was ever hunted in any form by Harmonia. This point showed that Harmonia didn't initiate anything at all to try to gather True Runes.

Wyatt Lightfellow was hunted by the Howling Voice Guild, so that is one example of Harmonia hunting for True Runes. Also, Nash Latkje was ordered to look for a new true rune that emerged in Dunan (Rune of the Beginning). Although he largely ignores that directive, they certainly do search--but are not very effective. Leknaat and Windy were also hunted by Harmonia, and their clan was destroyed. The same goes with Geddoe's homeland--again, destroyed for the sake of a True Rune. It's apparently not too easy to locate a True Rune. There's no "radar" or anything like it which can "sense" True Runes either.

Oh yes, and indeed all Bishops are not cloes. Maroux Blight was a Bishop before becoming the first King of Highland. Thus, they definitely are not all cloes of Hikusaak.

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:12 pm

SARSadmin wrote:He may have tried to look for Luc. However, Leknaat perpetually hides herself within a magic ward. She specializes in keeping herself hidden (reason why Windy wasn't able to find her), and thus Hikusaak would have had little luck finding her and Luc.

Luc and Leknaat sort of "revealed" themselves in Gate Rune War and Dunan Unification War. Yet, no Harmonian found them. And even with Sasarai being totally clueless on who Luc was when they crossed path in Dunan Unification War seem to point to the conclusion that Luc wasn't on a list of people to hunt. Otherwise Sasarai would've recognize him.

Wyatt Lightfellow was hunted by the Howling Voice Guild, so that is one example of Harmonia hunting for True Runes.

I'm sort of under the impression that Wyat was hunted by HVG for his relationship with Flame Champion instead of being hunted for his True Water Rune. But if it's mentioned that he was indeed hunted for his rune, then yeah, my bad. I didn't know that.

Also, Nash Latkje was ordered to look for a new true rune that emerged in Dunan (Rune of the Beginning). Although he largely ignores that directive, they certainly do search--but are not very effective.

I'm not too sure about this one, but I think Harmonia only wanted to sort of take a look at the Rune of Beginning by sending Nash, just as an observant or something like that. Had their intention was to collect the Rune of Beginning, surely Harmonia would send more than 1 person in Nash.

Leknaat and Windy were also hunted by Harmonia, and their clan was destroyed.

That was hundreds of years prior to the present world. And so far, it seems that Harmonia hardly put any effort on trying to locate those two women whom both revealed their location during the Gate Rune War. I just think that Hikusaak didn't try to collect the True Runes in the present (up to S3 that is) world.

The same goes with Geddoe's homeland--again, destroyed for the sake of a True Rune.

Not exactly sure when this happened, but judging from Geddoe's age and look, it seems to happen around 80 years prior to S3. To me, that's quite a long time, not to mention that this guy happened to currently working for Harmonia itself.

But yeah, my bad, apparently there are quite a lot of (half-hearted) attempts by Harmonia to get the True Runes. Having said that, I'm still sceptical that Hikusaak was trying to collect all True Runes. It seems that he was quite picky considering that Albert Silverberg (a Harmonian strategist) was working with two True Rune bearers (Luc and Yuber) and fighting against True Rune bearers (Hugo, Geddoe, Chris, Edge) at one time, yet there was no obvious attempt by Harmonia to interfere and collect them.

I agree with what SARSadmin said that it seem to be difficult to locate True Runes because there's no radar or something, which supports my idea even stronger. It's hard to locate True Runes, and in the Hero's War there were at least 6 True Runes involved (excluding Sasarai's because his was already in possession of Harmonia), yet they didn't jump to that rare chance. To me, that's like a once in a lifetime chance, but they didn't get excited or whatnot at all. Too suspicious IMO.

Oh yes, and indeed all Bishops are not cloes. Maroux Blight was a Bishop before becoming the first King of Highland. Thus, they definitely are not all cloes of Hikusaak.

I guess that settles the question.

Post by **patapi** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:25 pm

Red Killey wrote:I agree with what SARSadmin said that it seem to be difficult to locate True Runes because there's no radar or something, which supports my idea even stronger. It's hard to locate True Runes, and in the Hero's War there were at least 6 True Runes involved (excluding Sasarai's because his was already in possession of Harmonia), yet they didn't jump to that rare chance. To me, that's like a once in a lifetime chance, but they didn't get excited or whatnot at all. Too suspicious IMO.

Pardon me for going a bit off-topic here, but which 6 (or more) true runes were involved in the Hero's War?

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:35 pm

The 5 elemental True Runes and the Eightfold Rune.

The Hero's War is Konami's new name for the Second Fire Bringer War, yet it also refers to the war between Hikusaak and Aronia so many years ago.

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:14 am

Jowy Atreides wrote:The 5 elemental True Runes and the Eightfold Rune.

And the Night Rune in form of SDS as well.

What's even more suspicious IMO is that Clive was involved in Gate Rune War and Dunan Unification War and he worked for HVG. So I think if Harmonia pursued Wyatt for his True Water Rune (because Harmonia's goal is to collect True Runes), it wouldn't really make sense either that Clive kept his mouth shut about the many True Runes that were involved in those two wars.

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:22 am

The newb is gonna revive this thread

I just think that Hikusaak didn't try to collect the True Runes in the present (up to S3 that is) world.

It is mentioned in Suikoden IV, that: (Minor spoiler, nothing to ruin the plot)
[spoiler]Kooluk mentions wanting to get a True Rune, possibly to give to Harmonia[/spoiler]
That's 150 years prior to Suikoden 1, so it seems Harmonia has had some intention with the True Runes, to some degree, for a while.

Is it possible that Harmonia only wants the runes for a brief period of time - to study, tap their power, or something, instead of wanting to possess them entirely? They had True Fire, True Wind, True Earth, Beast, and others, in their possession for at least a time, but haven't seemed too upset in losing or giving them away after having them for an amount of time.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:06 am

Not too upset??? They started a war in the grasslands in order to get back the True Fire Rune. Remember the first Fire Bringer War? They nearly decimated the grasslands then and ruined two of the grassland tribes at that time (Mantor Tribe and Senai's tribe). They also decimated Geddoe's homeland for the True Lightning Rune and sent the Howling Voice Guild after Wyatt for the True Water Rune..he had to hide out in the Grasslands in order to avoid being caught and was still hiding during Suikoden 3. The True Wind Rune and True Earth Runes never really left Harmonia's hands because Luc and Sasarai were Hikusaak's clones so they still had ties to Harmonia persay.

The Beast Rune left Harmonia of it's own will by choosing to come to the Highland capital, but that still was good for Harmonia because Highland is still under its control. So, to say that Harmonia isn't too upset about losing the True Runes they possessed is pushing it a little. They are still after Leknaat and Windy in order to possess the Gate Rune. Harmonia wants every True Rune to come into its possession and remain there.