Suikoden gods?

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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Black Fang
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Postby Black Fang » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:50 pm

There is little mention of god or any dieties in the Suikoden world. What we do know is that the 27 runes were born adorning shield and sword, in other words the rune of the beginning created ALL the other true runes, and the other True runes, created the minor runes. There is speculation that there exist man-made runes, but I personally am against this rumor as it has too many faults.

The true question lies in who created the rune of beginning, and thus far there is no answer. They seem to have just materialised outta nothing......kinda like the universe in real life.
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Postby Jowy Atreides » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:12 pm

Well, the origins of this world are questionable, hence all the religions out there.

Also, it's not a rumor that man-made runes exist, Konami already said that
runes can be made by human hands. (Falcon, Spider Slay, Angry Dragon, Twin Ring, Hate, etc.)

Another thing is that the creation story is actually a metaphor talking about the conflicts between chaos and order at the most basic levels. This is why a lot of words in the creation story for Suiko are in quotes, they're just referring to something else that can be labeled as the word in quotes.
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Black Fang » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:55 pm

Ok, but still..........does Konami mention anything about where the power springs for those man-made runes, and who exactlly is capable of making them?

Another thing is that the creation story is actually a metaphor talking about the conflicts between chaos and order at the most basic levels. This is why a lot of words in the creation story for Suiko are in quotes, they're just referring to something else that can be labaled as the word in quotes.


So basically what you're saying is that there is a deeper meaning to the story based on the legend? Interesting. Suppose in this certain case Luca was looked upon as "chaos" or one to cause it, and Riou was the "order" or the saviour of the city-state. Guess that can make sense.
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Postby Vextor » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:15 pm

Although the "sword and shield" are said to be the source of the 27 true runes. Nowhere does it say that the Rune of the Beginning is the actual "sword and shield." All available information indicate that the Rune of the Beginning is simply one of the shards from the shattered pieces of the sword.

Based on the myth though, it would be "darkness" that created everything, because everything was created from the "tear" shed by the darkness.
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Postby Black Fang » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:17 pm

Well if you chose to take Black Sword of of Jowy at the end you get the Rune of Beginning, and Leknaat says "these two runes are aspects of the Rune of Beginning" but that could be only the PAL translation. It mentions it in II several times actually, but yeah.

The darkness (universe) created "Sword" and "Shield". The "Sword" and the "Shield" created everything else. "Sword" created the sky, "Shield" created the earth and sparks of both created the stars as well as the 27 true runes being born from the fight.

First of all, I think you'll notice that I put quotes around "Shield" and "Sword". The reason for this is that I just realised that "Bright Shield" and "Black Sword" are not the same "Shield" and "Sword" of legend! The last part of the legend with the sparks is the most interesting as it is there that it says that the sparks from both "Shield" and "Sword" created the 27 True Runes, and we know that the Rune of Beginning is one of the 27 True Runes as well as the fact that it is comprised of "The Bright Shield Rune" and "The Black Sword Rune". Now due to its name, the Rune of Beginning was considered to be the ultimate rune as the one that started it all, but it turns out to be just one of the 27 true runes ADORNING the "Sword" and the "Shield", and whats more it seems to be imitating them with its half runes unlike any of its brethren. This would explain the Rune of Beginning being of equal power with all of the other true runes.

Might be just me making stuff up here, but I try to anylize what information I've been given (the myth) and logically work through to a valid solution, and this is what I can come up with. Looking at it from a sensible point of view, it seems to fit perfectly. You're right though SARS, as everything did come from the darkness (which I believe is a metaphor for the universe) since everything came from Sword and Shield. Everything that came from Sword and Shield seems to be a reoccurance in the Suikoden world (108 stars, true runes...) yet the Sword, Shield and the Darkness themselves are never mentioned again. Sword and Shield somewhat make me think of the Moon and the Sun.
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Postby Vextor » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:38 pm

Glad you understood that point. The Rune of the Beginning represents the battle between the Sword and Shield, but are not themselves the brothers of creation. Otherwise, you'd have the genesis happening every so often--which would spell disaster for civilization, or any hope for one.
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Postby Black Fang » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:51 pm

Otherwise, you'd have the genesis happening every so often


Not exactly. The sword and shield created ONE planet....whos to say they are still in one location. Maybe they're fighting half way across the galaxy creating new worlds.
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Postby Vextor » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:11 pm

Black Fang wrote:
Not exactly. The sword and shield created ONE planet....whos to say they are still in one location. Maybe they're fighting half way across the galaxy creating new worlds.


Uhh, where did you get that from--that sword and shield created ONE planet.
I wish you'd stop pulling these "facts" out of thin air.
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Postby Sesshomaru » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:19 pm

Black Fang wrote: There is speculation that there exist man-made runes, but I personally am against this rumor as it has too many faults.


really? I could see one of the suikdoens being about a mad dictator with a man made all powerful rune...

Uhh, where did you get that from--that sword and shield created ONE planet.
I wish you'd stop pulling these "facts" out of thin air.


why not? Some of the runes power MIGHT of bounced off something... And made a new world?
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Postby Vextor » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:21 pm

Konami has stated that some runes are man-made. Such as the Falcon Rune which is made and given out to students of the Falcon Style. Long Chan Chan made the White Tiger Rune, as well.
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Postby Black Fang » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:21 am

I'm not "pulling it out of thin air", I'm pulling it out of the myth. Sword created the sky, shiled created the earth. Earth+Sky = Planet aka Suikoden world.

why not? Some of the runes power MIGHT of bounced off something... And made a new world?


Huh? You completelly lost me here. :?

Konami has stated that some runes are man-made. Such as the Falcon Rune which is made and given out to students of the Falcon Style. Long Chan Chan made the White Tiger Rune, as well.


Yea I heard about man-made runes being official but did L.C.Chan actually make it HIMSELF?
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Postby Vextor » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:27 am

You're basically assuming that the Sword/Shield merely created one planet, but we don't know for certain. We actually don't even know if the Suikoden world is on a planet--it may simply be flat. It's dangerous to assume too much about mythology.

And yes, LC Chan made the rune himself, although it is described as being more like a badge instead of a rune.
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Postby Black Fang » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:05 am

You're basically assuming that the Sword/Shield merely created one planet, but we don't know for certain. We actually don't even know if the Suikoden world is on a planet--it may simply be flat. It's dangerous to assume too much about mythology.


You're saying the Suikoden world might be just as flat as a map on a table......and if you float to a corner of the map you fall of the end of the Suiko World? Guess you've got a point there. If that is true than your past theory about Sword and Shield recreating the world would hold as well.

And yes, LC Chan made the rune himself, although it is described as being more like a badge instead of a rune.


So are the man made runes derived from the actual runes already in existance or is it still unknown?
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Postby Vextor » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:37 am

The man-made runes may not be runes at all, but mere objects. Konami's been very wish-washy about this. At one point, they said the Falcon Rune is merely a Symbol, and that a Falcon Style student don't actually "use" the rune to do their Falcon attack. More likely, it's there just for gameplay reasons.

Also, until we see the "end" of the Suikoden world, we'd have no idea whether the world is on a planet, or on a fantasy-esque flat land.
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